|  Author | Topic: The TRUE Scriptural New Year (Read 272 times) |
Davide
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« Reply #15 on Jun 9, 2005, 1:38am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: YHWHPeople@aol.com
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR...
Carlo writes,
Shalom Arnold!
I really wonder:
How would you count 151 Days FROM the 17th Day of the 2nd Month TO the 17th Day of the 7th Month?
Maybe did you count 5 Months of 30 Days each, PLUS one Day, including BOTH the 17th Day of the 2nd Month, AND the 17th Day of the 7th Month?
RESPONSE; YES, I counted the 1st day /17th of the 2nd month and I counted the last day 17th of the 7th month, and it is 151 days, was I suppose to leave out the 1st or last day so it would fit the 150 day theory???? END.
Carlo continues,
And where would The Scriptures say that the Ark rested 2 more Days, before the 150 Days?
RESPONSE; simple deduction, but I might ask where does it say there are 30 day months? END
Carlo continues,
Actually The Scriptures Very Clearly speak ONLY about 150 Days, when the waters were strong / prevailed on the Earth (GENESIS 7:24; 8:3)!
And those 150 Days Very Clearly BEGAN on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS 7:11), and ENDED on the 17th Day of the 7th Month, when the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4)!
RESPONSE; THE 150 Days Very Clearly BEGAN on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS 7:11), BUT it does “NOT” say it ended on the 17th of the 7th month , as uou suggest, but it says the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month (GENESIS 8:4)! The waters prevailed for 150 days which is 2 days longer than 5 months and this is an absolute. You can say and believe that there were once 30 day months and the moon has gotten faster if you want, but it won’t change the truth. END.
Carlo continues,
AFTER those 150 Days, the waters decreased continually until the beginning of the 10th” Month, so that the Ark rested there for almost another 2 and a half Months, until the tops of the mountain were seen (GENESIS 8:5)!
RESPONSE; IF IT TOOK from the 7 to the 10 month for the tops of the mountains to be seen, how could the ark be on the mountain, and the mountain not be under water? END.
Brother Arnold
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Davide
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« Reply #16 on Jun 9, 2005, 1:40am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: PWC <pwc17@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR...
Greetings Dear Br. Arnold,
Are you saying that the actual time frame of the 5 months in the Flood account is 152 days? - If so you have just proved that your lunar theory is bunk.
The arithmetic looks like this:
152 days divided by 5 months = 30.4 days/month x 12 = 364.8 days/year.
The above arithmetic surely does not support a 354 day lunar calendar; but does the solar calendar. Even if you insist on 151 days you have still disproved your lunar theory.
151 days divided by 5 months = 30.2 days/month x 12 = 362.4 days/year.
YashaNa.
Br. Paul
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Davide
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« Reply #17 on Jun 9, 2005, 1:44am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "yahshuadisciples" <YahshuaDisciples@webtv.net>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:24 pm
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR...
Shalom Arnold!
I really wonder WHY did you not answer my post replying to your previous post
(that I am including here below), and, instead, you did answer my post replying
John, picking up something from it?
Here I am including my post replying to your previous post, that covers most of
your arguments used in your current post:
****************************************
Shalom Arnold!
I really wonder:
How would you count 151 Days FROM the 17th Day of the 2nd Month TO the 17th Day
of the 7th Month?
Maybe did you count 5 Months of 30 Days each, PLUS one Day, including BOTH the
17th Day of the 2nd Month, AND the 17th Day of the 7th Month?
And where would The Scriptures say that the Ark rested 2 more Days, before the
150 Days?
Actually The Scriptures Very Clearly speak ONLY about 150 Days, when the waters
were strong / prevailed on the Earth (GENESIS 7:24; 8:3)!
And those 150 Days Very Clearly BEGAN on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS
7:11), and ENDED on the 17th Day of the 7th Month, when the Ark rested on the
mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4)!
Very Clearly those 150 Days were 5 Months of 30 Days Each, Proving that Each
Scriptural Month is 30 Days long!
AFTER those 150 Days, the waters decreased continually until the beginning of
the 10th Month, so that the Ark rested there for almost another 2 and a half
Months, until the tops of the mountain were seen (GENESIS 8:5)!
And another 3 Months passed, until the beginning of the 1st Month of the Next
Year, when the waters were dried up from all the Earth (GENESIS 8:13)!
And almost another 2 Months passed, until the 27th Day of the 2nd Month, when
the Earth were dried (GENESIS 8:14)!
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!
True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!
Your Brother in HIS Name,
Carlo Tognoni,
The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
****************************************
Now, let me reply in details to your current post:
YOU WROTE:
(THAT IS 151 DAYS), DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT , COUNT IT YOURSELF AND YOU
should see that it is 151 days from the 17th of the 2nd month to the 17th of the
7th month, using 30 day months, NOT 15O days as you suggest.
I REPLY:
Sorry, Arnold, but you are WRONGLY including the 17 Day of the 7th Month when
the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4), while the 150 Days were
when the waters were strong on the Earth (GENESIS 7:24)!
Do not take my word for it, count it yourself, and you should see that it is 150
Days when the waters were strong on the Earth, starting on the 17th Day of the
2nd Month up to the 16th Day of the 7th Month, and on the 17th Day of the 7th
Month the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4), AFTER the waters
began to decrease at the end of the 150 Days (GENESIS 8:3)!
YOU WROTE:
Do you really think the moon has speeded up a half a day each month and now only
takes 29 and a half days to orbit the earth and it used to take 30 days to make
the same trip?????
I REPLY:
Sorry Arnold, but you are WRONGLY counting again!
Is the half day after the 29th Day, the 30th Day? Of course!
Once the Day is begun, of course, cannot reset!
Then, the Conjunction occurs, making the New Moon (I know that you agree with us
that The Scriptural New Moon is at the Conjunction, and NOT at the First Visible
Crescent)!
The problem is that you believe the WRONG sunset / evening / dark to sunset /
evening / dark day, and that is why you WRONGLY have months of 29 days, and
months of 30 days, alternately, because you start the day from the sunset /
evening / dark at the end of the PREVIOUS day, and the Conjunction can occur
before the beginning of your WRONG 24 hours day!
Not so with The Scriptural Day, from morning (dawn to sunrise) to evening
(sunset to dark)!
You have always Months of 30 Days, because the New Moon will be always the Day
(from the morning to the evening) just after the Conjunction!
YOU WROTE:
Do you believe the ordinance of the moon has changed???? If so He said Israel
would cease to be a nation.
I REPLY:
What is such ordinance of the Moon??? And where in The Scriptures, if so, did
YAHWEH say Israel would cease to be a nation???
I would remind you that the nation of Israel is NOT following The Way, NOR The
Calendar of YAHWEH!
YOU WROTE:
In order to believe what you are preaching one would have to not only go against
the WORD, gut against nature.
I REPLY:
What are you speaking about??? The Word of YAHWEH clearly Teach that the New
Moon is at the Conjunction, when the Moon is Renewed, Covered, and Dark, and the
Conjunction occurs each and every 30 Days, as it can both be seen by the last
visible crescent, and/or calculated astronomically!
YOU WROTE:
I AGREE BUT THE ARK RESTED IN THE 7TH MONTH ON THE 17TH DAY, WHICH IS “NOT”
150 DAYS. YOU ARE READING SOMETHING INTO THE SCRIPTURES WHEN YOU SAY different.
that is a private interoperation if there has ever been one.
I REPLY:
Sorry Arnold, but you are WRONGLY counting again!
Please read what I have written above!
YOU WROTE:
just because the ark rested, or hung on the mountain on the 17th does not mean
that the waters were not strong another day or 2 before they began to dry up.
THE ARK RESTED BEFORE THE TOPS OF THE MOUNTAINS were seen, and 15 cubits above
the highest mountain would not be high enough for the ark to pass because at
least 25 feet of such a ship would be under water and would rest upon the
mountain.
I REPLY:
Sorry Arnold, but you are WRONGLY counting again!
Please read more carefully GENESIS 8:3, and you will see that the waters were
decreasing at the end of the 150 Days!
And surely the Ark was NOT a submarine, but floated on the waters!
When the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat, on the 17th Day of the 7th Month
(GENESIS 8:4), that clearly meant that the waters were decreasing under it,
otherwise the Ark could not rest on the mountains of Ararat, but continuing to
floating on the waters!
The tops of the mountains that were seen at the beginning of the 10th Month,
almost 2 and half Months later, clearly were mountains less high than the
mountains of Ararat, otherwise the Ark would be submerged UNDER the waters, that
is clearly NOT the case, being NOT a submarine!
YOU WROTE:
YOU ARE ADDING TO THE WORD again Carlo. The WORD does not teach 3o day months
here neither. Please reread it. Just because 30 will go into 1260 forty two
timed does not make 3o day months. The moon has not gotten faster and has not
changed it ordinance.
I REPLY:
Sorry Arnold, but you are WRONGLY counting again!
Please, reread Revelation Chapter 11, and you will see that 42 Months (Verse 2)
are 1260 Days (Verse 3), that is, 42 Months of 30 Days Each!
The Moon is not faster, but the SAME speed making a Month in 30 Days!
Actually it is only your WRONG belief that is SLOWER...  )
Truly you are the one who is adding to The Word of YAHWEH, and NOT me!
YOU WROTE:
although we do not call the moon a star, THE Jews of our Savior’s day saw it
as a star according to many places in Philo the Jew such as when he said “that
stay,” referring to the moon etc, after all it is the same word, when He said
“let there be luminaries/light” the grater light/luminary and the lesser
light/luminary. You might wan’t to check me out on this, but best I remember,
BOTH lights are LUMINARIES/STARS.
I REPLY:
The Moon is NOT a Star, NOr a Light!
The Sun and the Stars are the Lights (greater and lesser luminaries) set in the
Sky!
The Moon, a small natural satellite around the Earth, only reflects the Light
from the Sun!
YOU WROTE:
WRONG again Carlo, the scripture says that things are brought forth by the light
of the moon, referring to the moon as having light.
I REPLY:
Sorry Arnold, you are WRONGLY putting your private interpretation on The
Scriptures!
The Light on the Moon is, as a mirror, the reflected Light from the Sun!
The Moon has NO Light by its own!
Without the reflected Light from the Sun, the Moon would be a celestial body, a
rock without any Light, almost DARK, just as it is at the Conjunction, when it
is Covered by the Sun!
YOU WROTE:
YOU ARE GETTING CLOSE Carlo, the sun and moon were part of the heavens when YHWH
created them IN THE BEGINNING and they were dark when He moved upon the water
which was also created before He said let there be light/luminaries and lit the
dark bodies. Before He worked on them for 6 days and when He rested, the seventh
day, the moon was in an 8th day Phase.
I REPLY:
Sorry Arnold, but you are the one getting close, because the Heavens, created in
THE BEGINNING (GENESIS 1:1), included Sun, Stars, Moon, and Planets (otherwise,
when did YAHWEH create the Planets on our Solar System, for example, since there
is no other mention of it in the account in Genesis 1?).
But you WRONGLY believe that the Sun, and the BILLIONS of other Stars were
created DARK, in DARK Heavens, so putting YAHWEH and HIS Billions of Malakim
(Angels) dwelling in DARKNESS, in a DARK Universe, instead of the LIGHT where
YAHWEH dwells (1 Timothy 6:16; Yaaqob / James 1:17; 1 Yahchanan / John 1:5)!
NOT SO, Arnold!
GENESIS 1:2 proves that the Earth, created in the Beginning, together with the
Heavens (GENESIS 1:1), BECAME empty and without form, and with darkness, and
waters that covered it!
The Earth was NOT Created without form and empty, but to be inhabitated (Isayah
45:18; Iyyob / Job 38:7)!
Something of very dramatic and tragic occurred between GENESIS 1:1, and GENESIS
1:2!
A possible explanation, according to The Scriptures, could be the rebellion of
Satan and demons, and the Judgment of YAHWEH on that pre Adamic Earth, and maybe
also on the Moon, and on the other Planets of our Solar System, that are still
empty and without form, and who knows on other parts of the Universe where the
Rebellion of Satan and demons spread!
Then, from GENESIS 1:3 ahead, YAHWEH decided to Recreate the surface of the
Earth, and its enviroment, to fit to the vegetal, animal, and human life that HE
then Created on It, about 6000 Years ago!
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!
True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!
Your Brother in HIS Name,
Carlo Tognoni,
The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
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Davide
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #18 on Jun 9, 2005, 8:19am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "yahshuadisciples" <YahshuaDisciples@webtv.net>
Date: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:59 am
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR...
Shalom Arnold!
Now you did finally reply to my previous post replying your previous post!
YOU WROTE:
YES, I counted the 1st day /17th of the 2nd month and I counted the last day
17th of the 7th month, and it is 151 days, was I suppose to leave out the 1st or
last day so it would fit the 150 day theory????
I REPLY:
NO, you were supposed to count in your way, by Lunar Months of 29 and half Days
(29 and 30 days, alternately)!
And, in your way, from the 17th Day of the 2nd Month to the 17th Day of the 7th
Month, even INCLUDING both of them, there would be ONLY 148 Days, and NOT 150
Days, clearly Proving your way WRONG!
The 150 Days is NOT a theory, since The Scriptures clearly said that (GENESIS
7:24; 8:3)!
And it is clear that the 150 Days, when the waters were strong on the Earth,
started on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS 7:11) up to the 16th Day of
the 7th Month, because on the 17th Day of the 7th Month the Ark rested on the
mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4), AFTER the waters began to decrease at the end
of the 150 Days (GENESIS 8:3)!
YOU WROTE:
simple deduction, but I might ask where does it say there are 30 day months?
I REPLY:
NO, you were only assumption, without any Scriptural fact to support it!
GENESIS 7:11, 24; 8:3, 4 clearly say that there were 150 Days in 5 Months, from
the 2nd Month to the 7th Month, that is 30 Days each of the 5 Months involved in
the 150 Days, perfectly matching the Monthly Conjunction (New Moon), and the
Scriptural Day (from morning to evening)!
YOU WROTE:
THE 150 Days Very Clearly BEGAN on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS 7:11),
BUT it does “NOT” say it ended on the 17th of the 7th month, as you suggest,
but it says the ark rested on the 17th of the 7th month (GENESIS 8:4)! The
waters prevailed for 150 days which is 2 days longer than 5 months and this is
an absolute. You can say and believe that there were once 30 day months and the
moon has gotten faster if you want, but it won’t change the truth.
I REPLY:
GENESIS 8:3 Proves that the waters began to decrease at the end of the 150 Days,
and on the 17th Day of the 7th Month the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat!
Then, the 150 Days were from the 17th Day of the 2nd Month to the 16th Day of
the 7th Month!
That was exactly 5 Months of 30 Days each!
Just as it is now! The Moon is gone always at the SAME speed!
The Scriptural Month is 30 Days long!
There are 30 Scriptural Days betwen a Conjunction and the next Conjunction!
YOU WROTE:
IF IT TOOK from the 7 to the 10 month for the tops of the mountains to be seen,
how could the ark be on the mountain, and the mountain not be under water?
Brother Arnold
I REPLY:
Simply because the mountains of Ararat (in the current nation of Turkey), where
the Ark rested, were (and still are!) higher than the other tops of the
mountains around it to be seen, and surely the Ark was not a submarine, but it
floated on the waters!
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!
True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!
Your Brother in HIS Name,
Carlo Tognoni,
The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
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Davide
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #19 on Jun 9, 2005, 8:24am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "TRACY NORTON" <tracy6003@msn.com>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:39 am
Subject: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???
I try to go back as far as a I can to where I first started studying the
topic of the Rosh HaShanah on/after the Vernal Equinox. I know it was
somewhere between 1997 to 2001 but the following link at Eliyah.com is one
(year 2002) that I remember reading:
http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum1/HTML/003156.html
Minnesota Marlin (Posts: 256) posted 04-05-2002 09:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahweh's calendar
Yahweh's real calendar is simple! Paul tells us:
"... from the simplicity that is in Yahshua ..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many people today are wondering what the real calendar is!
Or, how to observe and to count the real calendar Yahweh gave to us.
It's always a problem for a lot of people: how to know the beginning of a
new year, when does a new month begin and when does the feasts of Yahweh
start.
Let me tell you this: If it is so difficult and only possible for a "smart
cookie" a normal fisherman or a farmer never will get it! When I read the
Holy Bible, I don't feel that real believers are all high-educated people,
more just ordinary people. Paul mentions the simplicity that's in Yahshua!
There are no hidden secrets or "mysteries" when we talk about Yah's
calendar, it's not just for the "only happy few" or "elite" but it is for
everybody, and don't forget, we are all equal "... for there is no respect
of persons with Yahweh..." as Romans 2:11 and Ephesians 6:9 tell us. ...or
are some people more equal than others... I don't think so!
Let's see how we can figure it all out...
In Genesis 1:14 it tell's us that the sun and the moon are to determine the
seasons: "... And Yahweh said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the
heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and for years...". The lights in the firmament like
the sun, moon and the stars, are important for us as a sign.
The word "seasons" is Strong # 4150 and means "mowed" or "moed" and that
means an "appointment" or "appointed time".
So the sun and the moon are both used to determine the time! The sun
determines a year and a year is split into seasons, to start with spring,
summer, fall and the winter. The moon determines a month.
Yahweh marked those seasons with the spring equinox (March 20-21), summer
solstice, fall equinox and winter solstice.
A new year or the first month of a year, starts in spring and never in
winter. There is no way at all that the first month of a year can or will
fall partly in the winter of the previous year, and partly in the spring of
the new year.
Exodus 12:2 states about the beginning of months or begin of a year "..it
shall be the first month of the year to you..." and we also read "...observe
the month Abib, and keep the Passover..." in Deuteronomy 16:1. It tells us
that the first month is Abib and we also know that "...for the barley was in
the ear..." (Exodus 10:31). We now know that the first month's name is Abib
and that the barley is in the ear, so it must be in spring time!
All of the first month Abib must be in the spring. Spring starts at the
spring equinox. A new Year or the first of Abib starts on or after the
spring equinox with the first visible new moon or new crescent. A new year
starts not with the nearest new moon to the spring equinox but with the
first new moon on or after spring equinox and that means always after March
19.
Please don't forget: what is a sign, if you can't see it with your eyes...
To give you more information about the real calendar, I copied and revised
three articles I once received. I don't know who made them or where they
came from...
"GREEN EARS" or EQUINOX ?
Many churches, ministries and assemblies determine New Year's Day or "Abib
one" by taking the first crescent on or after the spring equinox of March 20
or 21.
Other groups take the first crescent of "green ears" of barley. Here are
some of the reasons why we should use the equinox rather than "green ears".
1 From Adam to Noah (1556 years), "green ears" could not have been used
since perpetual springtime existed. There were no seasons then. "Spring was
forever" (Ovid Meta.1:88-108). Genesis 8:22 is when "...a seed time and
harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter..." began. From Adam to Noah the
equinox must have been used.
2 On board ship, Noah wasn't able to examine a barley field in Israel or
anywhere else (Gen. 8:13), so he must have used the equinox.
3 Israel was led in the wilderness for forty years (Deut. 29:5) without
examining the barley in Jerusalem or Palestine.
4 Barley is variable and not precise. It ripens faster in warmer latitudes
nearer the equator than in colder northern areas farther from the equator.
Also, the barley ripens faster in valleys or at low altitudes than on
mountains or at high altitudes. As Herbert Solinsky points out: "...there is
about a sixty day variation in the time of the ripening of barley depending
on the location within Palestine..." (page 48 of "The Calendar God Gave
Moses"). As Yisrael Hawkins states: "...When grain is ripening to a golden
color in the South Texas Valley, the North Texas grain is not even in the
ear..." (page 8 of "...Yahweh's Passover & Yahshua's Memorial...")
5 In light of the variation of "green ears" in different locations,where is
the supposed "Bible authorized" location? There is no clear-cut answer. The
first location was in the Nile Delta in Egypt (Ex. 9:31 & 12:2). Later
Israel encountered "green ears" located in the Jericho Valley in Israel
(Josh. 5:10 cp.2:6 where "Flax was bolled" (Ex. 932)). But virtually all
assemblies ignore these two locations. Instead, they use Mount Zion* or
Mount Sinai* by inferring into Exodus 12:24 something that's not there. The
Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread are the "ordinance", not "green ears"
of barley.
6 What did Christians do for thousands of years who lived in the southern
hemisphere? The cycle of seasons is opposite from the northern hemisphere.
"Green ears" are no guide at all down there. But the Equinox works well all
over the world.
7 Mount Zion* and/or Mount Sinai* are not the best latitudes for the
earliest barley. Also, it is on a hill rather than in a valley. And what if
Mount Zion faces a prolonged drought? What if a locust plague sweeps through
Palestine before "green ears" appear? As Christ said: "...The hour cometh,
when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the
Father..." (John 4:21). For hundreds of years, Jerusalem was occupied by
Canaanites. Moses, Joshua, Deborah, Gideon and Samuel didn't check Jerusalem
(a Jebusite town) for "green ears". Therefore, we see that Jerusalem has
many potential problem, but the equinox is unaffected by all these problems.
8 We observe sunsets locally in the western sky to determine the sabbath
day. A new day starts as soon the sun is disappeared behind the horizon. We
observe lunar crescents locally in the western sky to determine a new month.
But "green ears" can't be observe locally or in the sky. They don't fit the
pattern. They're not consistent.
Instead, to be consistent, let us observe the star locally which appears
each year n the equinox to determine the new year's day. The Hayden
Planetarium of New York as report in the New York Times, March 20, 1988,
page 39, shows that the people of antiquity easily knew the spring equinox
by Arcturus - a bright, first magnitude star which appears shortly after
sunset in the twilight (the handle of the Big Dipper points to it) - which
always appears March 21st after the previous evening's sunset in the
northern hemisphere. It's the brightest spring star in the northern
hemisphere. This is all in keeping with Genesis 1:14-16 which says the sun,
moon and stars are for the purpose of determining the days, seasons and
years! Not the barley.
9 Yahshua said: "...Are there not twelve hours in the day?" (John 11:9) and
this was spoken seven days before Passover (John 11:7-9 and 12:1).
In the spring, day and night are equal for several days around the time of
the equinox if the observer is standing on the equator. The latitude of
Jerusalem (31.8m) makes it impossible for day and night to be equal length
there on the equinox. Instead they are equal length there before equinox and
daytime is longer than nighttime there on the equinox.
But Yahshua's remark at the approximate time of the equinox implies that
Yahshua was conscious of the equinox at this Passover time. But He made no
remark concerning the state of the barley.
CRESCENT or CONJUNCTION ?
========================
Is the biblical new moon the first faint visible crescent or the invisible
astronomical lunar conjunction? Here are a number of reasons why we should
use the crescent rather than the invisible conjunction.
1 The ancient Hebrews had no almanacs, telescopes or computers with advanced
software (like SkyMap v2.26-1995 by Marriott/JASC 76226.2652@compuserve.com
or the CD-Rom "Explore your Universe") to figure out when the lunar
conjunction would occur. The discoveries of Newton were millennia away. They
had no choice but to use visible crescent.
2 The Hebrew words "yerach" and "lebanah", translated "moon" are never used
to describe the first day of the month. The Hebrew word "chodesh" is
translated "new moon".
In Gesenius Hebrew/Chaldee Lexicon we find that the term "chodesh" (Strong #
2320) which comes from "chadash" (Strong # 2318) and means to be new, or to
polish a sword. In other words, it appears as a scimitar, or curved sword.
It is not invisible!
3 Psalm 81:3 says: "...Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time
appointed (Heb. "keseh" meaning "full moon"), on our solemn east day." Since
we know that the new moon and feast of the full moon must first and
fifteenth days of the month respectively, it naturally follows for us to ask
whether or not there can be a full moon fifteen days after a crescent. Or
must we use the lunar conjunction in order to come out right?
The truth is that "The necessary time for full moon varies from 13.73 to
15.80 days after conjunction" Over two days - depending on how the ellipse
is oriented with respect to the sun and earth since it is off center! (The
Calendars Of Ancient Egypt by Richard A. Parker)
So from crescent to full moon would have even greater variability than this.
When 200 such months were fed into a computer at random, it was fond that
the full moon proper occurred the 12th day after the crescent only once;
13th day after 44 times; 14th day after 94 times; 15th day after 60 times
and 16th day after only once.
In other words, the full moon proper doesn't always fall on the 15th day, so
Psalm 81:3 means just basically round - not hair-splitting.
4 Revelation 12:1-5 says that:"...there appeared a great wonder in heaven...
...a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet... ...and she,
being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered...
...ad she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod
of iron..."
If an a astronomer were to read this passage, he would automatically think
of the constellation Virgo at the point in time when the sun's path in the
heavens crosses through her body. This event always accurse in mid-October,
the exact time of the Feast of Trumpets in many years.
If Yahshua's first coming was on this feast, as we think his second coming
will be, then we know it was a new moon that was visible to John.
The Feast of Trumpets can occur as many as 29 days after September 23rd
(Autumnal equinox) or as few as the same day if the equinox and the crescent
occur on the same day. Since John saw the moon under her feet, it couldn't
have been the lunar conjunction.
5 The historical precedent is visible crescents. As Hastings Dict. of the
Bible, art. "New Moon", page 522 says: "...there was no fixed calendar till
the 4th century... and the New Moon was declared from actual observation.
The eye witnesses were carefully examined on the 3th day of each month... If
no witnesses were available, then the following day was New Moon..."
As the Jewish Encyc., art. "New Moon", page 243 says: "...the Sanhedrin was
assembled in the courtyard ("bet ya'azek") of Jerusalem on the 30th of each
month from morning to evening, waiting for the reports of those appointed to
observe the new moon..."
(See also Mishnah R.H.i.7, ii.5-7; Sanh.102) The article "History of the
Calendar", page 498 says: "...the history of the Jewish calendar may be
divided into three periods - the biblical, the talmudic and the
post-talmudic. The first rested purely on the observation of the sun and the
moon, the second on observation and reckoning, the third entirely on
reckoning..."
As the Encyclopedia Judaica, art. "New Moon", page 1039 says:
"...originally, the new moon was not fixed by astronomical calculations, but
was solemnly proclaimed after witnesses had testified to the reappearance of
the crescent of the moon. On the 30th of each month, the members of the High
court (Sanhedrin) assembled in a courtyard in Jerusalem, named Beit Ya'azek,
where they waited to receive the testimony of two reliable witnesses; they
then sanctified the new moon. If the moon's crescent was not seen on the
30th day, the new moon was automatically celebrated on the 31th day..."
6 Each month is 29 or 30 days long. This is why Saul held a two-day festival
(1 Sam. 20:27, 34). David and Jonathan knew in advance that there would be a
new moon festival the next day (1 Sam. 20:5,18), and the day after that,
because of their mentioning waiting until the third day (1 Sam. 20:5,12,19).
But they didn't know in advance whether the crescent would appear the first
day or the second. The very fact that two days were celebrated rather than
just one is proof of their inability to predict with certainty the new moon
day.
Calculating the lunar conjunction is precise and unambiguous. Only one day
is needed using that method.
CRESCENT on or after SPRING EQUINOX ?
==================================
Many churches and assemblies take the crescent closest to the spring
equinox, even if that crescent happens to fall before the equinox, and call
that "Abib One".
Thus their holy days ar one month to early. The correct method is to take
the first crescent on or after the spring equinox and call that day "Abib
one".
Other churches and assemblies use the "green ears" instead of the equinox.
This method is synonymous with using either side of the equinox.
Here are some of the reasons why it is correct to use the first crescent on
or after the spring equinox.
1 It is not consistent to have Abib one in the spring some years and in the
winter other years. The festivals are to occur in their seasons - not out of
them (Deut.16:6; Num. 13:10).
Deuteronomy 16:1, Exodus 23:15 and 34:18 all make it clear that the moon
must be "OF" the "GREEN EARS", not before them. There had to be enough
barley developed for the wave sheaf (Lev. 23:11).
2 If Abib one can fall before the spring equinox, then Passover will always
fall in the spring, but Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacle and Last Great Day
will fall mostly in the summer, not autumn or fall.
The fall holy days will be celebrated in two different seasons. Instead of
harvesting crops during the harvest moon, people will have to travel to the
feast empty-handed as their crops rot in the fields.
If Abib one can fall 13 days before the equinox, then Tishri one, of the
month Tishri, will be 21 or 22 days before the fall equinox. It is not
proper to have harvest festivals in the summer (Lev. 23:39).
3 Farmers and shepherds, two and three thousand years ago, didn't know ahead
of time if the equinox would be March 20, 21 or even 19. They didn't have
almanacs.
So if a crescent came 13, 14 or 15 days before they wouldn't know if it were
nearer or not ahead of time. Not only this, but also they couldn't predict
ahead of time whether the month would have 29 or 30 days, further blurring
the midpoint.
And even if the equinox was March 20, and the crescent was 14 days before,
the actual time of the equinox would fall many hours after the taking of the
Passover on the night of the 19th. So even on the same day, Passover here
falls short of spring.
The ancients probably couldn't even calculate the equinox to the nearest
day, let alone hour or minute. The equinox might fall at noon the 20th.
4 The requirement of ripe barley for the wave sheaf (Lev. 23:11), limits
Abib 15 to 21 to a time period from the beginning of April to early June
(Solinsky page 46-48).
"...barley begins to ripen in Palestina with the beginning of April, and in
the lower and warmer parts the cutting is begun at the end of the same
month. Hence we see that the first new moon, which began the first month and
the Jewish year, could only take place in the last days of March at the
earliest, and the sacrifice of the "omer" (wave sheaf) at the earliest only
some days before the end of the first half of April..." (Astronomy in the
Old Testament, Giovanni V. Shiaparelli, 1905, Oxford).
But if we use crescents 14 days before the equinox, Passover can fall as
early March 19th.
5 According to one source, Yahshua's last Passover was observed in a year
when the crescent before the equinox was closer than the one after, and yet
Yahshua used the one after. Only 28, 31 and 34AD had wednesday Passover
dates, and only 31 AD is likely among these three (Solinsky page 63).
That being the case, the only Wednesday Passover of 31 AD was April 23rd.
Fourteen days earlier makes April 9th which is 18 days after March 21st
(latest possible equinox) showing that the nearer crescent before the
equinox wasn't used (The Calendar Yahweh Gave to Moses, Herb Solinsky, page
75)
6 From the book "Calendarium Palestini" by William Carpenter, page 32, we
read about the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread: "...it was celebrated
on the 14th day of the moon next after the vernal equinox and continued
seven days..." (this was written folks in 1825!)
Furthermore, we know that Ezra and Nehemiah used the Babylonian names for
the months of the calendar. By all indications, they actually used the
Babylonian calendar itself and knew no other. We know that the Babylonian
calendar used visible crescents and also it di not allow the first month of
the year to come before the vernal equinox for hundreds of years.
No less an authority than Otto Neugebauer knew of no archaeological evidence
to the contrary that the Babylonian and Biblical calendars are the same.
Also, according to the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin, pages 46 to 51, we find
that Rabbon Simeon Ben Gamaliel (Paul's teacher) intercalated a month on
three grounds: tekufah, barley and roads. He said the most important method
was tekufah.
When they asked if the other two matter, Gamaliel made no reply because he
would have been persecuted by the Pharisees if he had contradicted them.
Now... the most important truth of all so far presented... When did the
death of our Saviour, Yahshua Messiah occur?
Yahshua died at the age of 33 years on a Wednesday, the 14th of Abib in 31
CE. The visible new moon of that month occurred after the vernal equinox and
was not the nearest new moon to the equinox.
His death occurred on April 25, in the year 31 CE, similar to the calendar
sequence in 1983. Please don't forget there is no year 0 and that Yahshua
was born e few years before our era. Also Yahshua had to die at the right
time, because He is the only real sacrifice! Amen!
The Jewish calendar uses an inexact 19-year cycle that was one month off in
1983 and 1991. Our Master did not observe the holy days in accordance with
the Jewish calendar of today.
Let us all follow His perfect example.
THE CONCLUSION IS:
1 We have to take the first visible new moon (crescent) - with our eyes - on
or after the Spring Equinox - March 20 or 21, for the beginning of a new
year, in the Western sky at the end of the day.
2 We have to take the next first visible new moon (crescent) - with our eyes
- for the beginning of a new month, in the Western sky at the end of the
day.
* Mount Zion and Mount Sinai:
Mount Zion is a small hill in Jerusalem in the south-east, between Kidron
and the Tyropoeon valley.
Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia. Most people think that Mount Sinai is hill
Msa (28o32' N - 33o59' E) at mount Gebel el Igma (30o30' N - 29o51' E) in
the desert of Egypt.
But it is not. The real mount Sinai is across the Gulf of Aqaba in Saudi
Arabia in the mountains of al Lawz and al Magla. In line with Jerusalem,
both at 35o13'-15' east.
"...the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem..."
(Galatians 4:24-25)
For more information about mount Sinai look at:
http://www.serveonline.com/gallery/gallery.html of Discoveries Gallery.
The first day of Yahweh's year starts:
1997 April 9 - 1998 March 30 - 1999 April 18
(Days are about and based on the visible sighting of the new moon.)
For more information about Yah's calendar:
Booklets:
Whose Calendar? Yahweh's or the Jews
by John Trescott - 900 W. Alabama - Anadarko, OK 73005-4639 - USA
What's Wrong With the Calendar?
by Harold Hemenway - P.O. Box 88401 - Seattle, Washington 98188 - USA
Audiocassettes:
Calendar Bible Study - I to V
by Herb Solinsky - 1911 Landsdown Ct. - Carrollton, TX 75010 - USA
What do You mean? Moses Seat
by John Trescott
Videotapes:
The Calendar Yahweh gave to Moses - I to IV (NTSC VHS System only)
by Herb Solinsky
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahshua is King Sabbath Fellowship 1997
Minervalaan 110
8021 EH Zwolle
the Netherlands
Phone and Fax: + 31 38 453 55 57
E-mail: yahshua@cybercomm.nl
Don't let the devil stop you to make copies of this..
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Davide
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #20 on Jun 9, 2005, 8:27am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "yahwehcommunity" <YahwehCommunity@webtv.net>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:22 pm
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???
Shalom Tracy!
Thank you very much for sharing your Belief that the New Year would begin alway
at the First Crescent Moon on or after the Vernal Equinox.
Here below we are including our Comments on the post by Minnesota Marlin, that
you have linked from Eliyah.com, disputing his statements.
Then, we will post our Comments also to the three Scriptural Studies linked to
it, disputing also their statements.
----------------------------------------
HE WROTE:
Yahweh's calendar
Yahweh's real calendar is simple!
Paul tells us: "... from the simplicity that is in Yahshua ..."
Many people today are wondering what the real calendar is! Or, how to observe
and to count the real calendar Yahweh gave to us.
It's always a problem for a lot of people: how to know the beginning of a
new year, when does a new month begin and when does the feasts of Yahweh start.
Let me tell you this: If it is so difficult and only possible for a "smart
cookie" a normal fisherman or a farmer never will get it! When I read the Holy
Bible, I don't feel that real believers are all high-educated people, more just
ordinary people. Paul mentions the simplicity that's in Yahshua!
There are no hidden secrets or "mysteries" when we talk about Yah's calendar,
it's not just for the "only happy few" or "elite" but it is for everybody, and
don't forget, we are all equal "... for there is no respect of persons with
Yahweh..." as Romans 2:11 and Ephesians 6:9 tell us. ...or are some people more
equal than others... I don't think so!
OUR COMMENTS:
We see a BIG contradiction in such statements.
IF YAHWEH's Calendar would be Truly such a simple matter for everybody to
understand, then why would there be such a lot of controversy on it, and why
would the vast majority of people disagree on it?
The writer is confusing simplicity with sincerity.
And he forgets that YAHWEH is Calling Out HIS People (ROMANS 8:28 to 30), and NO
ONE can come to YAHSHUA unless THE FATHER Draws him (Yahchanan / John 6:44, 65).
HE CONTINUED TO WRITE:
Let's see how we can figure it all out...
In Genesis 1:14 it tell's us that the sun and the moon are to determine the
seasons: "... And Yahweh said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the
heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for
seasons, and for days, and for years...".
The lights in the firmament like the sun, moon and the stars, are important for
us as a sign.
The word "seasons" is Strong # 4150 and means "mowed" or "moed" and that means
an "appointment" or "appointed time".
So the sun and the moon are both used to determine the time! The sun determines
a year and a year is split into seasons, to start with spring, summer, fall and
the winter. The moon determines a month.
Yahweh marked those seasons with the spring equinox (March 20-21), summer
solstice, fall equinox and winter solstice.
A new year or the first month of a year, starts in spring and never in
winter. There is no way at all that the first month of a year can or will fall
partly in the winter of the previous year, and partly in the spring of
the new year.
OUR COMMENTS:
Where would The Scriptures say that: A new year or the first month of the year,
starts in spring and never in winter?
NOWHERE!
Where would The Scriptures say that: There is no way at all that the first month
of a year can or will fall partly in the winter of the previous year, and partly
in the spring of the new year?
NOWHERE!
That is only the assumption, human logic, and conviction of the writer!
HE CONTINUED TO WRITE:
Exodus 12:2 states about the beginning of months or begin of a year "..it shall
be the first month of the year to you..." and we also read "...observe the month
Abib, and keep the Passover..." in Deuteronomy 16:1. It tells us that the first
month is Abib and we also know that "...for the barley was in the ear..."
(Exodus 10:31). We now know that the first month's name is Abib and that the
barley is in the ear, so it must be in spring time!
OUR COMMENTS:
Actually ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) is present in March, close to the
Spring time, but OFTEN before Spring (Vernal) Equinox, just as it was this Year!
HE CONTINUED TO WROTE:
All of the first month Abib must be in the spring. Spring starts at the spring
equinox. A new Year or the first of Abib starts on or after the spring equinox
with the first visible new moon or new crescent.
A new year starts not with the nearest new moon to the spring equinox but with
the first new moon on or after spring equinox and that means always after March
19.
OUR COMMENTS:
Where would The Scriptures say that: All of the first month Abib must be in the
spring?
NOWHERE!
Where would The Scriptures say that: A new Year or the first of Abib starts on
or after the spring equinox with the first visible new moon or new crescent?
NOWHERE!
Where would The Scriptures say that: A new year starts not with the nearest new
moon to the spring equinox but with the first new moon on or after spring
equinox and that means always after March 19?
NOWHERE!
That is only the assumption, human logic, and conviction of the writer!
HE CONTINUED TO WRITE:
Please don't forget: what is a sign, if you can't see it with your eyes...
OUR COMMENTS:
Then, accordingly, can Spring (Vernal) Equinox, and Summer Solstice, and Fall
Equinox, and Winter Solstice be seen?
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!
True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!
Your Brethren in HIS Name,
Carlo and Davide Tognoni,
The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
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Davide
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #21 on Jun 9, 2005, 8:32am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: YHWHPeople@aol.com
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:20 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YE...
We know that the Jews of our Saviours time used the great lights to determine the beginning of the year by the writings of a Jew that lived at the time.
Philo a very Influential Jew who lived at the same time that the Savior did, sheds more light on the subject of how the Jews at that time began the year and to my knowledge there were no disagreements between the Jews and our Saviour as to when the year and the Feast days were, which means they started the year at the same time.
I mention Philo here; although we know, that he is not scripture, he was a very respectable Jew that lived among the Jewish people, and even led a delegate to Rome in behalf of the Jewish people that were being persecuted, at the time of the Messiah.
If Philo, which lived before during and twenty years after the time of the Messiah, is saying what I believe he is saying; it is not out of harmony with the Scriptures in Gen-1:14. Here are a few quotes from a Jew that walked the earth when He did and this is how the Jews understood the beginning of the year.
ON THE CREATION-XXXIX- (116) And the sun, the ruler of the day, making two equinoxes every year, both in spring and autumn. The spring equinox in the constellation of Aries, and the autumnal one in Libra, gives the most evident demonstration possible of the divine dignity of the number seven. For each of the equinoxes takes place in the seventh month, at which time men are expressly commanded by law to celebrate the greatest and most popular and comprehensive festivals; since it is owing to both these seasons, that all the fruits of the earth are engendered and brought to perfection; the fruit of corn, and all other things which are sown, being owing to the vernal equinox; and that of the vine, and of all the other plants which bear hard berries, of which there are great numbers, to the autumnal one.”
ON THE LIFE OF MOSES, 11-(222) Moses puts down the beginning of the vernal equinox as the first month of the year, attributing the chief honour, not as some persons do to the periodical revolutions of the year in regard of time, but rather to the graces and beauties of nature which it has caused to shine upon men; for it is through the bounty of nature that the seeds which are sown to produce the necessary food of mankind are brought to perfection. And the fruit of trees in their prime, which is second in importance only to the necessary crops, is engendered by the same power, and as being second in importance it also ripens late; for we always find in nature that those things which are not very necessary are second to those which are indispensable.
WHO IS THE HEIR OF DIVINE THINGS-XXIX - (147) Again, he has divided things so as to make his divisions equal in point of magnitude; such as the parallel cycles in heaven, and those which belong to the equinoxes both of spring and autumn, and those which belong to the winter and summer solstice. And on the earth he has divided the zones, two being equal to one another, which being placed close to the poles are frozen with cold, and on this account are uninhabitable. And two he has placed on the borders between these two and the torrid zone, and these two they say are the abode of a happy temperature of the air, one of them lying towards the south and the other towards the north.
(148) Now the divisions of time are equal in point of length, the longest day being equal to the longest night, and the shortest day being equal to the shortest night, and the mean length of day to the mean length of night. And the equal magnitude of other days and nights appears to be indicated chiefly by the equinoxes. (149) From the spring equinox to the summer solstice, day receives an addition to its length, and night, on the other hand, submits to a diminution; until the longest day and the shortest night are both completed. And then after the summer solstice the sun, turning back again the same road, neither more quickly nor more slowly than he advanced, but always preserving the same difference in the same manner, having a constantly equal arrangement, proceeds on till the autumnal equinox; and then, having made day and night both equal, begins to increase the length of the night, diminishing the day until the time of the winter solstice. (150) And when it has made the night the longest night, and the day the shortest day, then returning back again and adopting the same distances as before, he again comes to the spring equinox.
Thus the differences of time which appear to be unequal, do in reality possess a perfect equality in respect of magnitude, not indeed at the same seasons, but at different seasons of the year.
so that the regularly occurring daily
THE DECALOGUE- (161) But to the seventh day of the week he has assigned the greatest festivals, those of the longest duration, at the periods of the equinox both vernal and autumnal in each year; appointing two festivals for these two epochs, each lasting seven days; the one which takes place in the spring being for the perfection of what is being sown, and the one which falls in autumn being a feast of thanksgiving for the bringing home of all the fruits which the trees have produced.
And seven days have very appropriately been appointed to the seventh month of each equinox, so that each month might receive an especial honour of one sacred day of festival, for the purpose of refreshing and cheering the mind with its holiday.
THE SPECIAL LAWS, 1-XXXV- (172) And loaves are placed on the seventh day on the sacred table, being equal in number to the months of the year, twelve loaves, arranged in two rows of six each, in accordance with the arrangement of the equinoxes; for there are two equinoxes every year, the vernal and the autumnal, which are each reckoned by periods of six months.
At the vernal equinox all the seeds sown in the ground begin to ripen; about which time, also, the trees begin to put forth their fruit. And by the autumnal one the fruit of the trees has arrived at a perfect ripeness; and at this period, again, is the beginning of seed time. Thus nature, going through a long course of time, showers gifts after gifts upon the race of man, the symbols of which are the two sixes of loaves thus placed on the table.
(God, in a manner pleasing to the true and living God; who, having learnt to despise the pleasures of the flesh, pursue the delights and luxuries of the mind, having exercised themselves in the contemplation of the objects of nature. …….
(177) After he had ordered these things concerning the seventh day, he said that for the new moons it is necessary to offer ten whole burntofferings in all: two young bulls, one ram, seven lambs. For since the month is perfect in which the moon makes its way through its cycle, he thought that a perfect number of animals should be sacrificed. (178) The number ten is the completely perfect number which he most appropriately assigned to the animals which have been mentioned: the two young bulls since there are two motions of the moon as it continually runs its double-course—the motion of waxing until full moon and the motion of waning until its conjunction with the sun; one ram since there is one principle of reason by which the moon waxes and wanes in equal intervals, both as it increases and diminishes in illumination; the seven lambs because it receives the perfect shapes in periods of seven days—the half-moon in the first seven day period after its conjunction with the sun, full moon in the second; and when it makes its return again, the first is to half-moon, then it ceases at its conjunction with the sun. (179) With the sacrificial victims he ordered that the finest wheaten flour mixed with oil be offered and wine in stipulated amounts for drink-offerings. The reason is that even these are brought to maturity by the orbits of the moon in the annual seasons, especially as the moon helps to ripen fruits; wheat and wine and oil—the most helpful substances for life and the most essential for use by humans—are suitably dedicated together with all sacrifices.
(180) For the feast which begins the sacred month double sacrifices are fitly offered since the reason for it is double: one, since it is the new moon; the other, since it is the feast which begins the sacred month. Regarding the fact that it is the new moon it is distinctly stated that sacrifices equal to the other new moons are to be sacrificed. Regarding the fact that it is the feast which begins the sacred month, the gifts are doubled apart from the young bulls. For one rather than two is offered since the judge has thought it correct to use the indivisible nature of the number one instead of the divisible number two at the beginning of the year.
(181) In the first season—he calls springtime and its equinox the first season—he ordered that a feast which is called “the feast of unleavened bread” be celebrated for seven days and declared that every day was equal in honor in religious services. For he commanded that each day ten whole burnt offerings should be sacrificed just as they are for the new moons, making the total number of whole burnt offerings apart from those dealing with the trespass offerings seventy. (182) For he thought that the same reason governed the relation of the new moon to the month which governed the relation of the seven days of the feast to the equinox that took place in the seventh month. As a result he declared sacred both the beginning of each month and the beginning, consisting of the same number of days as the new moons, of the aggregate seven months.
Brother Arnold
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Davide
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #22 on Jun 9, 2005, 8:36am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "yahwehcommunity" <YahwehCommunity@webtv.net>
Date: Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:24 pm
Subject: Re: "GREEN EARS" or EQUINOX ?
Shalom Tracy!
Here below are our Comments disputing the statements of the first of three
Scriptural Articles that you have forwarded:
"GREEN EARS" or EQUINOX ?
Many churches, ministries and assemblies determine New Year's Day or "Abib one"
by taking the first crescent on or after the spring equinox of March 20 or 21.
Other groups take the first crescent of "green ears" of barley.
OUR COMMENTS:
There are also people and groups, as we do, that, acoording to The Scriptures,
set the First Month (ABIB / AVIV) of the Year, at the New Moon (Conjunction)
when Green Ears of Barley (ABIB / AVIV) are sighted in the Land of Israel,
especially in and/or around Yerusalem, on or closest (before or after) to the
Spring (Vernal) Equinox!
THEY WROTE:
Here are some of the reasons why we should use the equinox rather than "green
ears".
1 From Adam to Noah (1556 years), "green ears" could not have been used since
perpetual springtime existed. There were no seasons then. "Spring was forever"
(Ovid Meta.1:88-108). Genesis 8:22 is when "...a seed time and harvest, cold and
heat, summer and winter..." began.
From Adam to Noah the equinox must have been used.
OUR COMMENTS:
IF from Adam to Noah perpetual springtime existed (that, anyway, is NOT True!),
then the Spring Equinox would NOT be existed neither, since Spring Equinox is
the time when the Sun crosses the Equator, after the Winter season, that would
never occur, if there Winter season never was!
Actually Genesis 8:22 does NOT say that Seasons began after the Flood, but from
that time, until the Earth will last, a seed time and harvest, cold and heat,
summer and winter, will CEASE NEVER MORE, meaning that was occurred during the
time of the Flood!
THEY WROTE:
2 On board ship, Noah wasn't able to examine a barley field in Israel or
anywhere else (Gen. 8:13), so he must have used the equinox.
OUR COMMENTS:
On board ship or anywhere else, Noah was NOT able to use the Spring Equinox, if
there were no other Seasons than a perpetual Spring time!
THEY WROTE:
3 Israel was led in the wilderness for forty years (Deut. 29:5) without
examining the barley in Jerusalem or Palestine.
OUR COMMENTS:
Since YAHWEH lead them, Day and Night, HE Revealed them when the Beginning of
the Year was, just as HE did for The Sabbath (Exodus Chapter 16)!
THEY WROTE:
4 Barley is variable and not precise. It ripens faster in warmer latitudes
nearer the equator than in colder northern areas farther from the equator.
Also, the barley ripens faster in valleys or at low altitudes than on mountains
or at high altitudes.
As Herbert Solinsky points out: "...there is about a sixty day variation in the
time of the ripening of barley depending on the location within Palestine..."
(page 48 of "The Calendar God Gave Moses").
As Yisrael Hawkins states: "...When grain is ripening to a golden color in the
South Texas Valley, the North Texas grain is not even in the ear..." (page 8 of
"...Yahweh's Passover & Yahshua's Memorial...")
OUR COMMENTS:
Deuteronomy 16:1 clearly says to Observe the Month of ABIB / AVIV, that means 30
Days of Green Ears of Barley, and NOT just the New Moon.
And that can occur ONLY in March or early April, in the Northern Hemisphere, NOT
earlier, NO later.
Leviticus 23:10 clearly says that Israel was the Land that YAHWEH gave them,
where they would harvest their fields.
Isayah 2:3, and Micahyah 4:2 clearly is a Prophecy that from Zion is where the
Law will come out, and from Yerusalem is where the Word of YAHWEH will come out,
in the Last Days.
THEY WROTE:
5 In light of the variation of "green ears" in different locations,where is the
supposed "Bible authorized" location? There is no clear-cut answer.
The first location was in the Nile Delta in Egypt (Ex. 9:31 & 12:2). Later
Israel encountered "green ears" located in the Jericho Valley in Israel (Josh.
5:10 cp.2:6 where "Flax was bolled" (Ex. 932)).
But virtually all assemblies ignore these two locations. Instead, they use Mount
Zion* or Mount Sinai* by inferring into Exodus 12:24 something that's not there.
The Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread are the "ordinance", not "green ears"
of barley.
OUR COMMENTS:
The Land of Israel, especially on or around Yerusalem, now is the Scriptural
location where to set the Month of ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley), as
Leviticus 23:10; and Isayah 2:3, and Micahyah 4:2 clearly say!
And the Ordinance of The Passover and Days of Unleavened (Bread) has to be Keep
during the Month of ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley), as Deuteronomy 16:1
clearly says, on the First (Beginning) of the Months of the Year (Exodus 12:1)!
THEY WROTE:
6 What did Christians do for thousands of years who lived in the southern
hemisphere? The cycle of seasons is opposite from the northern hemisphere.
"Green ears" are no guide at all down there. But the Equinox works well all
over the world.
OUR COMMENT:
Green Ears of Barley are seen in Fall season there, at the New Moon on or
closest (before or after) to the Fall Equinox!
THEY WROTE:
7 Mount Zion* and/or Mount Sinai* are not the best latitudes for the earliest
barley. Also, it is on a hill rather than in a valley. And what if Mount Zion
faces a prolonged drought? What if a locust plague sweeps through Palestine
before "green ears" appear? As Christ said: "...The hour cometh, when ye shall
neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father..." (John
4:21). For hundreds of years, Jerusalem was occupied by Canaanites. Moses,
Joshua, Deborah, Gideon and Samuel didn't check Jerusalem (a Jebusite town) for
"green ears". Therefore, we see that Jerusalem has many potential problem, but
the equinox is unaffected by all these problems.
OUR COMMENTS:
We are living in the present time, in the Last Days, and NOT in those ancient
times, and now the Land of Israel, and especially Yerusalem, and is the best and
right location where to set ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley)!
YAHSHUA was referring to the New Covenant in HIS Blood, and to the destuction of
the Temple of YAHWEH in 70 C.E.
THEY WROTE:
8 We observe sunsets locally in the western sky to determine the sabbath day. A
new day starts as soon the sun is disappeared behind the horizon. We observe
lunar crescents locally in the western sky to determine a new month.
But "green ears" can't be observe locally or in the sky. They don't fit the
pattern. They're not consistent.
Instead, to be consistent, let us observe the star locally which appears
each year on the equinox to determine the new year's day. The Hayden Planetarium
of New York as report in the New York Times, March 20, 1988, page 39, shows that
the people of antiquity easily knew the spring equinox by Arcturus - a bright,
first magnitude star which appears shortly after sunset in the twilight (the
handle of the Big Dipper points to it) - which always appears March 21st after
the previous evening's sunset in the northern hemisphere. It's the brightest
spring star in the northern hemisphere. This is all in keeping with Genesis
1:14-16 which says the sun, moon and stars are for the purpose of determining
the days, seasons and years! Not the barley.
OUR COMMENTS:
The Children of Israel were a People of shepherds and farmers, and not of
astronomers!
Days and Sabbaths begin in the morning (dawn to sunrise) and end in the evening
(sunset to dark), following the pattern of a typical agricultural workday.
Months begin when the Moon is New, dark, covered, and end when the last crescent
disappears, following the pattern of a typical agricultural time of sowing.
Seasons and Feasts begin closest to the beginning of Spring, Summer, and Fall,
following the pattern of a typical agricultural cycle of harvesting.
Years begin at the New Moon when the Green Ears of Barley appear, closest to the
beginning of Spring season, following the pattern of a typical agricultural
year.
THEY WROTE:
9 Yahshua said: "...Are there not twelve hours in the day?" (John 11:9) and this
was spoken seven days before Passover (John 11:7-9 and 12:1).
In the spring, day and night are equal for several days around the time of the
equinox if the observer is standing on the equator. The latitude of Jerusalem
(31.8m) makes it impossible for day and night to be equal length there on the
equinox. Instead they are equal length there before equinox and daytime is
longer than nighttime there on the equinox.
But Yahshua's remark at the approximate time of the equinox implies that Yahshua
was conscious of the equinox at this Passover time. But He made no remark
concerning the state of the barley.
OUR COMMENTS:
YAHSHUA said that in Yerusalem, and it is clear that was BEFORE the Equinox,
according to just what they said above, that, in Yerusalem, Day and Night are
equal BEFORE the Equinox!
So, it was Seven Days BEFORE The Passover, but it STILL was BEFORE the Equinox!
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!
True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!
Your Brethren in HIS Name,
Carlo and Davide Tognoni,
The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
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Davide
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #23 on Jun 9, 2005, 8:39am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "yahwehcommunity" <YahwehCommunity@webtv.net>
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:07 am
Subject: Re: CRESCENT or CONJUNCTION ?
Shalom Tracy!
Here are our Comments of disputing the statements of the second Scriptural
Article that you have forwarded:
CRESCENT or CONJUNCTION ?
========================
Is the biblical new moon the first faint visible crescent or the invisible
astronomical lunar conjunction?
OUR COMMENTS:
Actually The Conjunction can be calculate astronomically, but ALSO set by the
last VISIBLE crescent of the Old Moon!
1 Samuel 20:5, 18 is a Proof of that!
THEY WROTE:
Here are a number of reasons why we should use the crescent rather than the
invisible conjunction.
1 The ancient Hebrews had no almanacs, telescopes or computers with advanced
software (like SkyMap v2.26-1995 by Marriott/JASC 76226.2652@c... or the CD-Rom
"Explore your Universe") to figure out when the lunar conjunction would occur.
The discoveries of Newton were millennia away. They had no choice but to use
visible crescent.
OUR COMMENTS:
Actually to calculate the Conjunction is an easy job, that also people in
ancient times could do.
But, anyway, they could watch for the LAST visible crescent of the OLD Moon, and
to set The Conjunction (New Moon) for TOMORROW, just as David and Yahnhatan did
(1 Samuel 20:5, 18)!
THEY WROTE:
2 The Hebrew words "yerach" and "lebanah", translated "moon" are never used to
describe the first day of the month. The Hebrew word "chodesh" is translated
"new moon".
In Gesenius Hebrew/Chaldee Lexicon we find that the term "chodesh" (Strong #
2320) which comes from "chadash" (Strong # 2318) and means to be new, or to
polish a sword. In other words, it appears as a scimitar, or curved sword.
It is not invisible!
OUR COMMENTS:
Only Gesenius says also that, while ALL the other Lexicons say differently,
referring
to the Covered, Dark, Renewed Moon at the Conjunction!
THEY WROTE:
3 Psalm 81:3 says: "...Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time
appointed (Heb. "keseh" meaning "full moon"), on our solemn feast day."
Since we know that the new moon and feast of the full moon must first and
fifteenth days of the month respectively, it naturally follows for us to ask
whether or not there can be a full moon fifteen days after a crescent.
Or must we use the lunar conjunction in order to come out right?
The truth is that "The necessary time for full moon varies from 13.73 to 15.80
days after conjunction" Over two days - depending on how the ellipse is oriented
with respect to the sun and earth since it is off center! (The Calendars Of
Ancient Egypt by Richard A. Parker)
So from crescent to full moon would have even greater variability than this.
When 200 such months were fed into a computer at random, it was fond that the
full moon proper occurred the 12th day after the crescent only once; 13th day
after 44 times; 14th day after 94 times; 15th day after 60 times and 16th day
after only once.
In other words, the full moon proper doesn't always fall on the 15th day, so
Psalm 81:3 means just basically round - not hair-splitting.
OUR COMMENTS:
Actually Psalm 81:3 says AT THE COVERED MOON, just as the Hebrew keseh means!
And, anyway, the New Moon, at The Conjunction, perfectly matches the Full Moon
on the 15th Day of the Month!
THEY WROTE:
4 Revelation 12:1-5 says that:"...there appeared a great wonder in heaven... a
woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet... ...and she, being
with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered ...and she
brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron..."
If an a astronomer were to read this passage, he would automatically think of
the constellation Virgo at the point in time when the sun's path in the heavens
crosses through her body. This event always accurse in mid-October, the exact
time of the Feast of Trumpets in many years.
If Yahshua's first coming was on this feast, as we think his second coming will
be, then we know it was a new moon that was visible to John.
The Feast of Trumpets can occur as many as 29 days after September 23rd
(Autumnal equinox) or as few as the same day if the equinox and the crescent
occur on the same day.
Since John saw the moon under her feet, it couldn't have been the lunar
conjunction.
OUR COMMENTS:
Just speculations there...
And, anyway, in the vision, Yahchanan (John) saw the Moon under her feet, NOT
the New Moon as if it was the first visible crescent.
THEY WROTE:
5 The historical precedent is visible crescents. As Hastings Dict. of the Bible,
art. "New Moon", page 522 says: "...there was no fixed calendar till the 4th
century... and the New Moon was declared from actual observation.
The eye witnesses were carefully examined on the 3th day of each month...
If no witnesses were available, then the following day was New Moon..."
As the Jewish Encyc., art. "New Moon", page 243 says: "...the Sanhedrin was
assembled in the courtyard ("bet ya'azek") of Jerusalem on the 30th of each
month from morning to evening, waiting for the reports of those appointed to
observe the new moon..."
(See also Mishnah R.H.i.7, ii.5-7; Sanh.102) The article "History of the
Calendar", page 498 says: "...the history of the Jewish calendar may be divided
into three periods - the biblical, the talmudic and the post-talmudic. The first
rested purely on the observation of the sun and the
moon, the second on observation and reckoning, the third entirely on
reckoning..."
As the Encyclopedia Judaica, art. "New Moon", page 1039 says: "...originally,
the new moon was not fixed by astronomical calculations, but was solemnly
proclaimed after witnesses had testified to the reappearance of the crescent of
the moon. On the 30th of each month, the members of the High court (Sanhedrin)
assembled in a courtyard in Jerusalem, named Beit Ya'azek, where they waited to
receive the testimony of two reliable witnesses; they then sanctified the new
moon. If the moon's crescent was not seen on the
30th day, the new moon was automatically celebrated on the 31th day..."
OUR COMMENTS:
No marvel that the Jews followed doctrines and traditions of men, after having
left the Law of YAHWEH, just as YAHSHUA said!
THEY WROTE:
6 Each month is 29 or 30 days long.
This is why Saul held a two-day festival (1 Sam. 20:27, 34). David and Jonathan
knew in advance that there would be a new moon festival the next day (1 Sam.
20:5,18), and the day after that, because of their mentioning waiting until the
third day (1 Sam. 20:5,12,19).
But they didn't know in advance whether the crescent would appear the first day
or the second.
The very fact that two days were celebrated rather than just one is proof of
their inability to predict with certainty the new moon day.
Calculating the lunar conjunction is precise and unambiguous. Only one day
is needed using that method.
OUR COMMENTS:
Actually each Scriptural Month is 30 Days long!
And David and Yahnathan knew in advance that TOMORROW was the New Moon, because
of astronomical calculation of the Conjunction, and/or factual vision of the
last visible crescent of the Old Moon!
May YAHWEN Bless your Understanding!
True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!
Your Brethren in HIS Name,
Carlo and Davide Tognoni,
The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
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Davide
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #24 on Jun 9, 2005, 8:43am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "yahwehcommunity" <YahwehCommunity@webtv.net>
Date: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:45 am
Subject: Re: CRESCENT on or after SPRING EQUINOX ?
Shalom Tracy!
Here are our Comments of disputing the statements of the third Scriptural A=
rticle that you have forwarded:
CRESCENT on or after SPRING EQUINOX ?
Many churches and assemblies take the crescent closest to the spring equino=
x, even if that crescent happens to fall before the equinox, and call that "=
Abib One".
Thus their holy days are one month too early. The correct method is to take=
the first crescent on or after the spring equinox and call that day "Abib
one".
Other churches and assemblies use the "green ears" instead of the equinox. =
This method is synonymous with using either side of the equinox.
OUR COMMENTS:
There are people and groups, just as we do, that, according the True correc=
t method of The Scriptures, set the First Month of the Year (ABIB / AVIV, me=
aning Green Ears of Barley) at the True New Moon (at the Conjunction) when G=
reen Ears of Barley are sighted in the Land of Israel, especially in and/or =
around Yerusalem, on or closest (before or after) the Spring (Vernal) Equino=
x.
THEY WROTE:
Here are some of the reasons why it is correct to use the first crescent on=
or after the spring equinox.
1 It is not consistent to have Abib one in the spring some years and in the=
winter other years. The festivals are to occur in their seasons - not out o=
f them (Deut.16:6; Num. 13:10).
Deuteronomy 16:1, Exodus 23:15 and 34:18 all make it clear that the moon mu=
st be "OF" the "GREEN EARS", not before them.
There had to be enough barley developed for the wave sheaf (Lev. 23:11).
OUR COMMENTS:
There is NO Scripture saying to set the First Month of ABIB /AVIV (Green Ea=
rs of Barley), on or after the Spring (Vernal) Equinox, NOR only on or after=
the Beginning of Spring season!
Surely it is NOT consistent to have NO ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) A=
T ALL, but Gold / Brown Ears of Barley, as SOMETIMES (this year, for example=
) occurs with the method of wait for the New Moon after the Spring (Vernal) =
Equinox, being LATE MORE THAN ONE MONTH from the time ABIB / AVIV (Green Ear=
s of Barley) have ALREADY been seen!
The First Month has to be OF GREEN EARS, and NOT AFTER THEM, OF GOLD / BROW=
N EARS!
THEY WROTE:
2 If Abib one can fall before the spring equinox, then Passover will always=
fall in the spring, but Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacle and Last Great Day =
will fall mostly in the summer, not autumn or fall.
The fall holy days will be celebrated in two different seasons. Instead of =
harvesting crops during the harvest moon, people will have to travel to the =
feast empty-handed as their crops rot in the fields.
If Abib one can fall 13 days before the equinox, then Tishri one, of the
month Tishri, will be 21 or 22 days before the fall equinox. It is not prop=
er to have harvest festivals in the summer (Lev. 23:39).
OUR COMMENTS:
Even if ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) begins before the Spring (Vernal=
) Equinox (just as this Year), Passover falls ALWAYS, at least, at the begin=
ning of Spring (just as this Year), with Green Ears of Barley available for =
the Offering of FirstFruit; and Tabernacles falls ALWAYS, at least, at the b=
eginning of Fall or Autumn (just as this Year), with available fruits harves=
ted, and leaves branches, and mitigate climate to live in Booths (Sukkath) f=
or Seven Days!
With the post Equinox method, ABIB / AVIV would begin with NO Green Ears of=
Barley available, but Ears of Barley already Gold / Brown (just as this Yea=
r); Passover could fall even late in April, MORE THAN ONE MONTH AFTER the be=
ginning of Spring (just as this Year), with NO ABIB / AVIV available for the=
Offering of Firsfruit; and Tabernacles could fall even late in October, MOR=
E THAN ONE MONTH AFTER the beginning of Fall or Autumn (just as this Year), =
with NO LEAVES BRANCHES, and a COLD AND HARD TIME to live in BOOTHS (SUKKATH=
) for Seven Days!
THEY WROTE:
3 Farmers and shepherds, two and three thousand years ago, didn't know ahea=
d of time if the equinox would be March 20, 21 or even 19. They didn't have =
almanacs.
So if a crescent came 13, 14 or 15 days before they wouldn't know if it wer=
e nearer or not ahead of time. Not only this, but also they couldn't predict=
ahead of time whether the month would have 29 or 30 days, further blurring =
the midpoint.
And even if the equinox was March 20, and the crescent was 14 days before, =
the actual time of the equinox would fall many hours after the taking of the=
Passover on the night of the 19th. So even on the same day, Passover here f=
alls short of spring.
The ancients probably couldn't even calculate the equinox to the nearest da=
y, let alone hour or minute. The equinox might fall at noon the 20th.
OUR COMMENTS:
Actually also the ancients could calculate the Equinox.
Anyway, if ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) was sighted at the New Moon (=
Conjunction) before the Equinox, that, according to Historic Data, always me=
ant that was the closest to the Equinox!
THEY WROTE:
4 The requirement of ripe barley for the wave sheaf (Lev. 23:11), limits Ab=
ib 15 to 21 to a time period from the beginning of April to early June (Soli=
nsky page 46-48).
"...barley begins to ripen in Palestina with the beginning of April, and in=
the lower and warmer parts the cutting is begun at the end of the same mont=
h.
Hence we see that the first new moon, which began the first month and the J=
ewish year, could only take place in the last days of March at the earliest,=
and the sacrifice of the "omer" (wave sheaf) at the earliest only some days=
before the end of the first half of April..." (Astronomy in the Old Testame=
nt, Giovanni V. Shiaparelli, 1905, Oxford).
But if we use crescents 14 days before the equinox, Passover can fall as ea=
rly March 19th.
OUR COMMENTS:
Leviticus 23:10 clearly says that the Barley had to be harvested, before to=
bring the Sheaf of Firsfruit for the Wave Offering!
That occurs at the end of April, AFTER the End of the Month of ABIB / ABIB,=
usually about One Month AFTER The Passover, and The Days of Unleavened Brea=
d!
Instead, the Offering of Firstfruit of Green Ears of Barley (Levitcus 23:14=
; 2:14) occurred the Day after The Passover, that would be impossible with t=
he post Equinox method, having NO Green Ears available to do it!
THEY WROTE:
5 According to one source, Yahshua's last Passover was observed in a year w=
hen the crescent before the equinox was closer than the one after, and yet Y=
ahshua used the one after.
Only 28, 31 and 34 AD had wednesday Passover dates, and only 31 AD is likel=
y among these three (Solinsky page 63).
That being the case, the only Wednesday Passover of 31 AD was April 23rd.
Fourteen days earlier makes April 9th which is 18 days after March 21st (la=
test possible equinox) showing that the nearer crescent before the equinox w=
asn't used (The Calendar Yahweh Gave to Moses, Herb Solinsky, page 75)
OUR COMMENT:
YAHSHUA did NOT Die on a Wednesday, but on a Thursday!
It was on the Year 30 C.E., and NOT 31 C.E.!
And the Passover was on March 23 (just as this Year), and NOT April 22!
THEY WROTE:
6 From the book "Calendarium Palestini" by William Carpenter, page 32, we r=
ead about the Passover and Days of Unleavened Bread: "...it was celebrated o=
n the 14th day of the moon next after the vernal equinox and continued seven=
days..." (this was written folks in 1825!)
Furthermore, we know that Ezra and Nehemiah used the Babylonian names for t=
he months of the calendar. By all indications, they actually used the Babylo=
nian calendar itself and knew no other. We know that the Babylonian calendar=
used visible crescents and also it di not allow the first month of the year=
to come before the vernal equinox for hundreds of years.
No less an authority than Otto Neugebauer knew of no archaeological evidenc=
e to the contrary that the Babylonian and Biblical calendars are the same.
OUR COMMENTS:
What a admission!!!
The Babylonians used first crescents and post equinox to set their year!
Far away that The TRUE Scriptural Calendar and the babylonian calendar are =
the same!!!
The Jews followed doctrines and traditions of men, having left The Law of Y=
AHWEH, just as YAHSHUA said!
In fact, also the babylonian day was the sunset / evening to sunset / eveni=
ng that the Jews adopted from Babylon, after they came back from their capti=
vity!
COME OUT OF HER (BABYLON), MY PEOPLE (Revelation 18:4)!!!
THEY WROTE:
Also, according to the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin, pages 46 to 51, we fin=
d that Rabbon Simeon Ben Gamaliel (Paul's teacher) intercalated a month on t=
hree grounds: tekufah, barley and roads. He said the most important method w=
as tekufah.
When they asked if the other two matter, Gamaliel made no reply because he =
would have been persecuted by the Pharisees if he had contradicted them.
OUR COMMENTS:
The original Hebrew tekufah really means turn of the Year, and not equinox,=
as in modern Hebrew!
THEY WROTE:
Now... the most important truth of all so far presented... When did the dea=
th of our Saviour, Yahshua Messiah occur?
Yahshua died at the age of 33 =BD years on a Wednesday, the 14th of Abib in 3=
1 CE.
The visible new moon of that month occurred after the vernal equinox and wa=
s not the nearest new moon to the equinox.
His death occurred on April 25, in the year 31 CE, similar to the calendar =
sequence in 1983.
Please don't forget there is no year 0 and that Yahshua was born a few year=
s before our era. Also Yahshua had to die at the right time, because He is t=
he only real sacrifice! Amen!
The Jewish calendar uses an inexact 19-year cycle that was one month off in=
1983 and 1991. Our Master did not observe the holy days in accordance with =
the Jewish calendar of today.
Let us all follow His perfect example.
OUR COMMENTS:
YAHSHUA died at the age of 33 =BD years on a Thursday, and NOT a Wednesday, t=
he 15th of ABIB / AVIV, and NOT the 14 of Abib, in 3O C.E., and NOT in 31 C.=
E.!
HIS Death occurred on March 24 (just as this Year, on The Feast of Unleaven=
ed Bread), in the Year 30 C.E., and NOT on April 25, in the Year 31 C.E.!
Our MASTER did NOT observe The Apart Days in accordance with the Jewish cal=
endar of then, NOR of today!
Let us all follow HIS TRUE Perfect Example.
THEY WROTE:
THE CONCLUSION IS:
1 We have to take the first visible new moon (crescent) - with our eyes - o=
n
or after the Spring Equinox - March 20 or 21, for the beginning of a new ye=
ar, in the Western sky at the end of the day.
OUR COMMENTS:
We have to check if ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) is sighted at the Ne=
w Moon (Conjunction), by astronomical calculation, and/or by the sighting of=
the last visible crescent of the Old Moon, the Day before the Conjunction, =
on or closest (before or after) the Spring (Vernal) Equinox, for the Beginni=
ng of the New Year, in the Northern Hemisphere, at the beginning of the Day,=
in the Morning (Dawn to Sunrise)!
THEY WROTE:
2 We have to take the next first visible new moon (crescent) - with our eye=
s - for the beginning of a new month, in the Western sky at the end of the d=
ay.
OUR COMMENTS:
We have to check the New Moon, at the Conjunction, by astronomical calculat=
ion, and/or by the sighting of the last visible crescent of the Old Moon, th=
e Day before the Conjunction, for the beginning of the New Month, in the Nor=
thern Hemisphere, at the beginning of the Day, in the Morning (Dawn to Sunri=
se)!
May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!
True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!
Your Brethren in HIS Name,
Carlo and Davide Tognoni,
The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA
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Davide
Moderator
member is offline
Joined: May 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 85
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Karma: 0 | | Re: The TRUE Scriptural New Year
« Reply #25 on Jun 9, 2005, 9:08am » | |
Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:
From: "yahwehcommunity" <YahwehCommunity@webtv.net>
Date: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:28 am
Subject: Neither Green Ears Nor The Equinox Is Mentioned In Gen 1:14
Neither Green Ears Nor The Equinox Is Mentioned In Gen 1:14
Sent to us by "Kevin"
Shalom brethren,
This year has brought some interesting discussion concerning the first
Scriptural month. Many believe that the first Scriptural month can not
begin until after the vernal equinox while many believe it can, but at
the same time many on both sides say that the equinox has nothing to do
with determining the first Scriptural month.
I sent out a short note to some which stated I believe I can prove
without doubt that the first Scriptural month can begin before the vernal
equinox and the expected response was, Show me Scripture & verse that
states such! I wish it were as simple as listing a Scriptural verse
which states such but it's not. Those who claim that the new year cannot
begin until after the vernal equinox do not have Scripture & verse
stating such so why do they expect those who say that the new year can
begin
before the equinox to have Scripture & verse stating such? The simple
fact of the matter is that we have to do some reasoning of our own to
figure out what the Scriptures are saying, and the simple fact of the
matter is that spring begins before the equinox. It is a man made rule
that says spring begins at the equinox but it is evident from nature
that things begin to spring back to life from the dead of winter before
the equinox.
Genesis 1:14 is often used to say that the new moon which is after the
vernal equinox is the first month of the year, but the vernal equinox
is not even mentioned in this verse of Scripture. Also, Genesis 1:14 is
used to say that the new moon that occurs when the green ears of barley
appear in Israel is the first month, but green ears of barley is not
mentioned in this verse of Scripture either. However, with reasoning,
both sides make some good points. One side will point out how unreliable
it is to use green ears of barley to determine the first month of the
year because of the ability to manipulate the growth of crops these days
so the crops can mature earlier and earlier and the other side will
point out that there is not one mention in Scripture that the equinox is
used to determine the first new moon.
Personally, I believe that because neither green ears nor the equinox
is mentioned in Genesis 1:14 that both sides are vulnerable to error
when determining the first Scriptural month, because it is true that man
is manipulating the growth of crops, but I also believe that it can be
proven that by example in Scripture that the first Scriptural month can
begin before the equinox. However, it will take me some time to put
that information together. Yahweh willing, by next year I will have that
put together, but for now I will leave you with some info that also has
helped me to conclude what I have concluded, that the first month of
the year can begin before the vernal equinox.
Many are familiar with the works of Josephus. In relation to when the
Passover is to be observed he wrote,"In the month of Xanthicus, which
with us is called Nisan, and begins the year, on the 14th day by lunar
reckoning, the sun being then in Aries, our lawgiver, seeing that in
this moon we were delivered from bondage to the Egyptians, ordained that
we should year by year offer the same sacrifice..." (Josephus,
Antiquities 3:10:5, quoted from the book The Festivals and Sacred Days
of Yahweh
pg 219/220. Their web site is: http://www.yahweh.org)
Also found in the book The Festivals and Sacred Days of Yahweh
concerning the beginning of the year it is stated that "Anatolius
points out
that the more ancient Jews (i.e. those under Sadducean authority) and the
conservative Quartodecimans both observed the same reckoning for their
first month of the year. Anatolius points out that among those who
correctly began the year were the eminent third century B.C.E. priest and
scholar Aristobulus of Paneas, the second century B.C.E. book of Enoch,
and the first century priests and writers Philo and Josephus.
(Anatolius, 3) Anatolius then writes:
'These writers, in solving some questions which are raised with respect
to the Exodus, say that all alike ought to sacrifice the Phasekh after
the vernal equinox in the middle of the first moon; and that this is
found to be when the sun passes through the first segment of the solar,
or, as some among them have named it, the zodiacal circle. But this
Aristobulus also adds, that for the festival of Phasekh it was necessary
not only that the sun should pass the equinoctial segment, but the moon
also...and since the day of the Phasekh is fixed for the 14th day of the
moon, at twilight, the moon will have the position diametrically
opposite the sun; as is to be seen in full moons.'" (Anatolius, 3f; pg
455/456)
With the understanding that the new year then was calculated by the sun
being in Aries then it becomes clearer what was meant in Gen 1:14 when
Elohim said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to
divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons,
and for days, and years," The determining factor of when Yahweh's
moadim are has nothing to do with green ears of barley, although it is at
that time of year when the Passover is observed, being the first month
of the year, and when the first month of the year begins has nothing to
do with the new moon occurring after the vernal equinox, although at
times the first month of the year does not begin until after the vernal
equinox.
Now then, are we to still go by these very instructions to begin the
new year? obviously not, because if we were to still go by when the sun
is in Aries then Passover would veer further and further away from the
equinox, from the procession of the equinox, and further and further
away from the season which it represents, the barley harvest. So, what is
the answer?
The book The Festivals and Sacred Days of Yahweh goes on to say on page
456, "The first month of the year, therefore, is determined under the
Aristocratic system when the 14th day of the moon passes the spring
equinox. If the 14th day of the moon falls before this equinox, that month
is counted as part of the previous year."
I believe that there is plenty of evidence to support this criteria and
it is what I use for the basis to determine the first Scriptural month
of the year. However, I do double check the timing of when the Feast
of Tabernacles will be in this calculation because we are specifically
told in Exodus 23:16 that "...the feast of ingathering...is in the end
of the year..." And in Exodus 34:22 we are instructed, "And thou shalt
observe...the feast of ingathering at the years end." Some have
determined that the word "end" in this verse of Scripture is referring
to the
autumnal equinox. Although there is no Scriptural support that the
feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement be at the years end but
Scripture does state that the feast of ingathering (Tabernacles) is to
be at
the years end. Thus, if the feast of ingathering is not at or directly
after the autumnal equinox then I believe that the calculation of the
first month is in error.
With this evidence I believe that this year, 2005, the first month of
the Scriptural year should begin with the moon just prior to the
equinox, because everything falls into place. Passover will be
observed on the
first full moon that is after the vernal equinox, there would be green
ears of barley availible for the wave sheaf offering if we were to
still make such an offering, and by using the moon that is just prior to
the vernal equinox that puts the feast of ingathering right at the
autumnal equinox as instructed in Scripture.
Conclusion:
It is reasoned by many that because our savior is the savior of the
world, not just the Jews, then there must be some way for those who are
not in the vicinity of Israel to check for green ears of barley to
determine when Yahweh's appointed times are and I believe that there
is. The
sun, moon and the stars are given for our determination of Yahweh's
appointed times, if we only knew how to read them. (Gen. 1:14) I don't
proclaim to know how to read them as of yet, but history tells us that
the way some have determined the first Scriptural month was from using
the first full moon after the vernal equinox. By using this method one
does not have to be in the land of Israel to determine if there are
green ears of barley, but it is likely that there will always be green
ears
of barley by the first full moon that is after the vernal equinox in
order to have the wave sheaf offering.
Please note below that I have listed other sources that collaborate
with this info. Although some of the info listed below has to do with the
setting of the date for Easter, the date for Easter was established
from the date of the Passover.
I hope that this info will in some way help all who are determined to
keep Passover at Yahweh's appointed time.
Yahweh bless,
Kevin
From site: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~sanhub/godstime.htm
Note that errors of up to 2 hours are probable for 30 A.D. reckonings,
and therefore important implications are consequent as seen in the
table below which uses U.S. Naval Observatory astronomical calculations
obtained from the Internet.
(http://riemann.usno.navy.mil./AA/data/docs/SpringPhenom.html).
ASPECTS OF GOD'S TIME
© Orest Solyma May, 1997
The Church of God in Williamstown
WEB SITE: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~sanhub/index.htm
THE BIBLICAL CALENDAR
Genesis 1:14 tells us that the sun and moon [hence a solar-lunar
calendar] are for "signs and for seasons (mo'ed = time(s); season(s);
festival(s); assembly), and for days and years." The LXX confirms this
translation. Targum Neofiti [See the note following this paragraph]
has (Gen
1:14): And the Lord ['according to the decree of his Memra' [i.e.,
YHWH]] said: "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to
separate the daytime from the night, and let them act as signs and
(sacred)
seasons [times] and so that the intercalation of moons (and) months may
be consecrated by them." (The Aramaic Bible, (translated by Martin
McNamara M.S.C.); T and T Clark, Edinburgh, 1992). Another Aramaic Targum,
Pseudo-Jonathan, says: God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament
of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as
signs and as festival times, and for counting the reckoning of days,
and for sanctifying the beginnings of months and the beginnings of years,
the intercalations of months and the intercalations of years, the
solstices, the new moon, and the cycles (of the sun)." (The Aramaic Bible,
(translated by Michael Maher M.S.C.); The Liturgical Press,
Collegeville, MN, 1992).
It is accepted that these Aramaic Targums pre-date the apostolic times
and so are quite valuable in revealing the earlier Jewish understanding
of Genesis 1:14. The NEB has "as signs both for festivals and for
seasons and years." The NJB has "let them indicate festivals, days and
years."
Ps 104:19 supports Gen 1:14 with the remarkable statement that God
appointed the moon for seasons [festivals], which are agriculturally-based
and typify the harvests of God's saints (1Cor 15:20,23,24). The NEB and
the NJB translate 'festivals' for 'seasons' in Gen 1:14.
The month with the Passover, Abib, is specifically commanded by the
Lord as being the beginning of the year (Ex 12:2; and also see Ex 13:4;
23:15; 34:18; 40:2,17; Lev 23:4-6; Num 9:1-3; 20:1; 28:16; 33:3; Dt
16:1-3; Josh 4:19; 5:10; 1Chr 12:15; 27:2-3; 2Chr 29:3,17; 30:15;
35:1; Ezr
7:9 [see NIV footnote]; 10:17; Neh 2:1 [see NIV footnote]; Est 3:7 [see
NIV footnote]; Ezk 29:17; 45:18,21 [Ezk 45 has a millennial setting!]).
This beginning symbolises the redemption of the Israel of God from the
world's system (Gal 1:4; Rev 14:4), and the typology of the Passover
lamb foreshadows the Lamb of God (Jn 1:29; Rev 5:6-6:1; 14:1-4). Clearly,
the first month of the year symbolises what is first in the sequence of
salvation, and determines all that follows. The religious leaders of
Judaism, as described in the Gospels, rejected the Son of God (Jn 8:19;
16:3), and not surprisingly their spiritual ancestors determine the
calculations for the calendar from 1 Tishri (the day commemorating the
return of Jesus the Messiah (1Cor 15:51-53; 1Th 4:14-16; Rev 20:6; Lev
23:23-25), who is still not recognised.
"The observation of the autumnal equinox, i.e., 'the going out of the
year' (Ex. 23:16), and of the spring or vernal equinox, called 'the
return of the year' (1 Ki. 20:26; 2 Ch. 36:10 KJV), was important for
controlling the calendar and consequently the festivals. Thus the year
began
with the new moon nearest the vernal equinox when the sun was in Aries
(Josephus, Ant. 3.201 [better to see Ant. III.x.5]), and the Passover
on the fourteenth day of Nisan coincided with the first full moon (Ex
12:2-6)." (The Illustrated Bible Dictionary, J. D. Douglas and N.
Hillyer, editors, IVP, 1980; Article Calendar, Vol 2, p. 223).
The present Jewish calendar, often termed the Hillel calendar, is of
more recent derivation than generally known. There is no doubt that the
postponement system, according to the Encyclopaedia Judaica, was not
fully in place until the eleventh century and is not really the product of
Rabbi Hillel II from 358 C.E., even though it is commonly attributed to
him. We should recognise that we are confronted with either the
observance of God's Festivals or the observances of a calendar with
postponement rules based on rabbinical traditions. The intent of the
Catholic
calendar is to avoid agreement with the original Jewish calendar and the
current Jewish calendar avoids agreement with the almost universal
Christian calendar (the Eastern Orthodox churches excepted). For example,
the Catholic observance of Easter Sunday was 30th March, 1997, whereas
the Orthodox Easter Sunday was 27th April, 1997. The Jewish Passover was
on the night of 21st April. The Roman observance is based on the early
(Nicean) arguments which related to the avoidance of the original
Jewish observance:
"The Easter controversy raged in the early Church and still exists
between the Western and Eastern churches. The final conditions arrived at
in the West are that Easter must be kept on the Sunday after the paschal
moon (the calendar moon whose fourteenth day falls on or after the
vernal equinox), reckoned from the day of the new moon inclusive" (The
Encyclopedia of Religion, (MACMILLAN, 1987, ed. Mircea Eliade), Vol 10, p.
86). The 1997 spring new moon (Jerusalem time) was on the night of
8th-9th March.
"Since the majority of early Christians were Jewish converts, it is
understandable that from the outset the Christian calendar was governed by
the fact that the death and Resurrection of Christ had taken place at
the time of the Jewish feast, the Pasch, or Passover, celebrated on the
14th day of the month of Nisan, i.e., at the full moon following the
spring equinox" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, (McGRAW HILL, N.Y., 1967),
Vol 2, p. 1062). Please note that the larger groups observing the
Passover season follow the rabbinical traditions. Scriptures and
historical
support for non-rabbinical practice are denied.
THE CALENDAR OF CHRISTIANITY
It should be noted that there is a lack of postponement rules indicated
in the early Church (admittedly Catholic, but nevertheless pertinent to
our decision-making on these matters of determining what calendar
Christians ought to observe). The key postponement rule used by the
Catholic
Church is that Easter Sunday is the first Sunday after the Paschal
(full) Moon.
A post-Nicaean letter from the emperor, Constantine I (306-337C.E.),
further illustrates the kind of calendrical problem we are confronted
with.
"Constantine, august, to the churches. ...
When the question arose concerning the most holy day of Easter, it was
decreed by common consent to be expedient, that this festival should be
celebrated on the same day by all, in every place. ... it seemed to
every one a most unworthy thing that we should follow the custom of the
Jews in the celebration of this most holy solemnity, who, polluted
wretches! having stained their hands with a nefarious crime, are justly
blinded in their minds. It is fit, therefore, that, rejecting the practice
of this people, we should perpetuate to all future ages the celebration
of this rite, in a more legitimate order, which we have kept from the
first day of our Lord's passion even to the present times. Let us then
have nothing in common with the most hostile rabble of the Jews. We have
received another method from the Saviour. A more lawful and proper
course is open to our most holy religion. In pursuing this course with a
unanimous consent, let us withdraw ourselves, my much honored brethren,
from that most odious fellowship. ... As it is necessary that this fault
should be so amended that we may have nothing in common with the usage
of these parricides and murderers of our Lord; and so that order is
most convenient which is observed by all the churches of the West, as well
as those of the southern and northern parts of the world, and also by
some in the East, it is judged therefore to be most equitable and
proper, and I pledged myself that this arrangement should meet your
approbation, namely that the custom which prevails with one consent in
the city
of Rome, and throughout all Italy, Africa and Egypt, in Spain, Gaul,
Britain, Lybia, the whole of Greece, the diocese of Asia, Pontus and
Cilicia, would be gladly embraced by your prudence, ... and to have no
fellowship with the perjury of the Jews. And, to sum up the whole in a few
words, it is agreeable to the common judgment of all, that the most
holy feast of Easter should be celebrated on one and the same day." (A
Historical View of The Council of Nice; with a Translation of Documents by
Rev. Isaac Boyle, D.D.; (T. Mason and G. Lane, New York, 1839), pp.
51-4).
This letter of Constantine reveals a high level of manipulation of
political power, propaganda, and religious coercion. Furthermore, roots of
anti-Semitism in Western culture are seen in the world government of
the day.
"It will suffice here to say that a decision seems to have been arrived
at in the Council of Nicaea, which, though it is strangely absent from
the canons of the council as now preserved to us (Turner, Monumenta
Nicaena, 152), is believed to have been determined that Easter was to be
celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon which follows
the spring equinox" (Catholic Encyclopaedia, 1913; obtained from
Internet: 'New Advent' Catholic Supersite
(http://www.knight.org/advent/cathen/03158a.htm#easter).
It is worthwhile and a little entertaining to see how the last larger
bastion of resistance, Britain, fell to the onslaught of calendrical and
further religious distortion. The British historian and bishop, Bede
[c.672-735 A.D.], in his The Ecclesiastical History of the English
People, especially in chapters 25-26 of Book III, has much to say
about the
synod and the discussions presided by King Oswy [612-670], particularly
between Bishop Colman and the Rome enthusiast, the Abbot of Ripon,
Wilfred, in the monastery of Streanaeshalch [i.e., the historic Synod of
Whitby of 664 A.D.].
"Bede makes it very clear that the calculation of the date of Easter
was not a merely technical or isolated issue. The movement of Easter was
one of the many things which argument in terms of symbols (as we would
say, but symbol is for us a limiting word, mysteries they would say)
showed to be loaded with significance. Easter had to be just at the
equinox, for the lengthening days represented Christ's triumph over the
powers of darkness. It had to be in the first month of the lunar year, for
this was the month in which the world had been created and in which it
ought to be newly created. It had to be as the moon was about to wane,
for the moon turns from earth to heavenly things [See Rev. 12:1; Mal.
4:2; Lk. 2:32; Isa. 60:1-3]. It was appropriate that Easter should
always fall within a space of seven days, for seven was a number of divine
significance. Considered from another point of view, Easter was to be
calculated in such a way as to fulfil both of the Old Law of the Jews and
the New Law of Christ. If it was celebrated at the right time, then all
was in harmony." (Introduction, p. xviii, by James Campbell, who
translated Bede's EH for The Great Histories Series by Washington Square
Press, N.Y., 1968).
Before quoting directly from Bede let us look at a footnote (no. 44,
pp. 400-1):
"Both the Celts and their opponents agreed that Easter was to be
calculated by reference to the full moon which came on or first after the
spring equinox. But the Celts held Easter Sunday to be that which came in
between the fourteenth day of the moon (i.e., the day of the full moon)
and the twentieth, both included. That is to say, that if the full moon
came on a Sunday, they made this Easter Sunday. The other churches
refused to make the day of the full moon Easter Sunday. Thus the system
which Bede used, and which became universal in the west, reckoned Easter
Sunday as that which fell between the fifteenth and the twenty-first
days of the moon. If the full moon on or next after the equinox came on a
Sunday, then the next Sunday was Easter Sunday."
This pattern of universal imposition of the dating and mode of
observance in the Passover/Easter controversy has persisted through the
centuries. The New Catholic Encyclopedia comments:
"Since the majority of the early Christians were Jewish converts, it is
understandable that from the outset the Christian calendar was governed
by the fact that the death and Resurrection of Christ had taken place
at the time of the chief Jewish feast, the Pasch, or Passover,
celebrated on the 14th day of the month of Nisan, i.e., at the full moon
following the Spring equinox. However, rather than literally follow the
Jewish Passover, since this would necessitate the commemoration of the
Resurrection on a different day of the week each year, Christian custom
(sanctioned by the Council of Nicaea I in 325; ConOecDecr 2-3, n.6) fixed
the anniversary of Christ's Resurrection on the actual day of the week
(the first day) on which the Resurrection had taken place. As a result,
Easter falls on the first day of the week (Sunday) after the first full
moon following the spring equinox, and thus can be as early as March 22
and as late as April 25" [which would make it the second full moon
after the equinox] (ibid., McGraw Hill, N.Y., 1967; pp. 1062-3).
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (St Pauls, Libreria Editrice
Vaticana, 1994, Item 1170) says:
"At the Council of Nicaea, in 325, all the Churches agreed that Easter,
the Christian Passover, should be celebrated on the Sunday following
the first full moon (Nisan 14) after the vernal equinox. The reform of
the Western calendar, called "Gregorian" after Pope Gregory XIII (1582),
caused a discrepancy of several days with the Eastern calendar. Today,
the Western and Eastern Churches are seeking agreement in order once
again to celebrate the day of the Lord's Resurrection on a common date."
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