The TRUE Scriptural New Year

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahwehcommunity" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:53 pm
Subject: New Year


Shalom Everyone!

Actually, according to The Scriptures, the New Year began on March 10th, 2005,
at The TRUE New Moon (at The Conjunction, or The Dark, Covered Moon, that is,
the Day After the Last Visible Crescent of the Old Moon, See 1 Samuel 20:5, 18).

The Passover of YAHWEH, AND The Memorial of YAHSHUA (The Last Supper WAS The
Passover Meal, See all the related Verses in Mattithyah / Matthew, Mark, and
Luke, and Consider that the account by Yahchanan / John was from the point of
view of the setting of the Feast of the Jews, a Day Later for their doctrines
and traditions of men!), on the 14th Day of the 1st Month, at even, is March
23rd, 2005, at evening, to continue Keeping during the night.

The First Day of Unleavened (Bread) is March 24th, 2005, in the morning (dawn to
sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

The Seventh, Last Day of Unleavened (Bread) is March 30th, 2005, in the morning
(dawn to sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

WaveSheaf (at the time of the Harvest of Barley) is April 30th, 2005, in the
morning (dawn to sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

Pentecost (at the time of the Harvest of Wheat) is June 19th, 2005, in the
morning (dawn to sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brethren in HIS Name,

Carlo and Davide Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "TRACY NORTON" <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:03 pm
Subject: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET

YOM 8 CHODESH 13 SHANAH 6,005 (YOM SHABAT)
( D19-M03-Y05 16:23 )

Shalom Alechem!

Although some of you know that I follow the torah in regards to a day
beginning at sunrise (and not at sunset); yet, I would like to declare that
this

chodesh (month) is the thirteenth month of this shanah (year); it is not
Rosh HaShanah (The New Year) yet.

I am also one of those who begins every new moon with a visible crescent. (I
said this for clarification of my reasoning and not for arguments).

If you celebrate Pesach (Passover) this month, then you would run into a
problem in observing Yom Sukkot later this year. Not only will you begin
Yom Teruah

(Trumpets) in the summer, you will be celebrating Sukkot just before the
autumnal equinox. And that time should be a time to BEGIN GATHERING the
harvest;

not celebrating over it.

I remember about three years ago most of the Jews, Messianics, Christians,
and Sacred Namers celebrated pesach and sukkot a month earlier similar to
this

time that many of you are doing now. And I remember that many experienced
the cold, snow, windy, and freezing rain of winter during the Passover; and
some

still hard crops that needed harvesting in during Sukkot.

I think if we always follow this simple rule then we will NEVER have a
problem with observing the MOEDIYM (Festivals) in their proper seasons:
1. ALWAYS start The New Year (which is the First Month, The Month ABIB) on
the FIRST new moon on or after the spring equinox.
2. Add a thirteenth month (Ve-Adar, or Adar II) on the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th,
11th, 14th, 17th year out of every 19 year cycle.

Observing this pattern will ensure you that the first month ABIB will ALWAYS
be in the spring; and the fall festivals will ALWAYS begin in the fall
season.

This pattern will never fail because it follows the harmonic patterns of the
sun, the moon, and the STARS! This pattern shows that BOTH heaven AND earth

will always agree and be in accord with each other every year, every 7th
year, every 19th year, and every Yobel (50th year, i.e. Jubilee).

What are your thoughts on this?

Shalom,

Tracy

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahshua777" <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???


Shabbath Shalom Everyone!

Let us address the argument that some people, just as Tracy, who embrace the
point of view of the only on, or after the Vernal Equinox, as the way of setting
the Beginning of the Year, and, consequently, The Passover, are rising versus
setting ABIB / AVIV before the Vernal Equinox.

They claim, referring to Genesis 1:14, that the Beginning of the Year has to be
in Spring season, and Spring season would start at the Vernal Equinox, so that
the First Month should be only on, or after the Vernal Equinox. Otherwise, if it
is set before the Vernal Equinox, the Year would begin still in late Winter
season; and also the so-called Fall Feasts (Shoutings / Trumpets, Atonements /
Coverings, and Tabernacles / Booths and Last Great Day) would be mostly still in
late Summer season, and not in Fall season.

Is such claim True?

Lets see...

First of all, there is NO Scripture that says that we have to begin the Year,
and to keep The Passover and Unleavened (Bread) Feast after the Vernal Equinox,
and that we have to keep the so-called Fall Feasts after the Fall Equinox!

But it is rather a matter of agricultural seasons that Barley is Harvested early
in Spring, Wheat is Harvested early in Summer, and other Grains and Fruits are
Harvested early in Fall!

Going back to the Beginning, in Genesis 1:3-5, we can see that YAHWEH Made the
Light, and HE Equally Separated between the Light and the Darkness, Calling the
Light DAY, and the Darkness NIGHT.

Since the word Equinox, coming from Latin, means Equal (Equi) Night (Nox) in
length as the Day, we can state that Day One, in Genesis 1:3-5, had to be an
Equinox.

By the way, on Day Four, in Genesis 1:14-19, the Lights (i.e., Sun, Stars, and
also Moon, as reflector of Sun's Light) were Made, and NOT Created (there are
two different Hebrew words used for to Create, and to Make, in the account of
Genesis Chapter 1), to be Set as Signs in the Sky for Days, Seasons, and Years,
and to Give Light on the Earth, and to Rule the Day, and the Night, and to
Divide Light (Day) from Darkness (Night), and they were NOT Created at that
time, about 6000 Years ago, but they were Created Long Time Before, in The
Beginning, in the Heavens (Genesis 1:1)!

Since according to Exodus 12:1, and Deuteronomy 16:1, it is Very Clear that the
Beginning of the Months of the Year is on the New Moon when ABIB / AVIV (Green
Ears of Barley) is Sighted, then we can claim that the Equinox shown in Genesis
1:3-5 had to be the Vernal Equinox, because Barley is in Green Ears (ABIB /
AVIV) only in Spring season, on the Northern Emisphere (especially in or around
Yerusalem, Israel, as the Best Scriptural reference)!

Then, we can state that the Beginning of the ORIGINAL First Year of Humanity
would be begun at the Vernal Equinox, with the New Moon (Dark, Covered Moon, at
Conjunction) on the SAME Day of the Vernal Equinox!

BTW, for First Crescent believers, please Read 1 Samuel 20:5, 18, and ask
yourselves how could King David and Yahnathan say, TOMORROW IS THE NEW MOON, if
it would be at the First Visible Crescent, other than only to know in advance
when the New Moon was, by astronomical calculation of the Conjunction, and/or by
sighting of the Last Visible Crescent of the Old Moon???

But even in such a peculiar case of the Vernal Equinox being on the SAME Day of
the New Moon, occurring very rarely, the so-called Fall Feasts do NOT occur All
in Fall season, because Shoutings (Trumpets), on the New Moon (1st Day) of the
Seventh Month, would occur on September 15, that is about ONE WEEK BEFORE the
Fall Equinox, so still in late Summer season!

Then, the argument of some people who claim that the only on, or after the
Vernal Equinox as Beginning of the Year, would set the so-called Fall Feasts
during the Fall season is clearly proven WRONG!

But since the New Moon very rarely occurs on the SAME Day of the Vernal Equinox,
already on the Second Year of Humanity, the New Moon occurred on a DIFFERENT Day
than the Vernal Equinox!

So, if the First Year of Humanity began on March 21, the usual date for the
Vernal Equinox, in Northern Emisphere, with the New Moon on the SAME Day of the
Vernal Equinox (JUST AS IT HAS OCCURRED LAST YEAR!), then, on the Second Year of
Humanity, the New Moon would be NOT on the SAME Day of the Vernal Equinox, but,
JUST AS IT IS OCCURRING THIS YEAR, there would be a New Moon on March 10, about
10 Days BEFORE the Vernal Equinox, and there would be a New Moon on April 9,
about 20 Days AFTER the Vernal Equinox!

Since, in Deuteronomy 16:1, it is written to Observe The Month of ABIB / AVIV
(Green Ears of Barley), and to Keep The Passover to YAHWEH, for in the Month of
ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) YAHWEH brought the Children of Israel out of
Egypt by night, on the Beginning (First) of the Months of the Year (See Exodus
Chapter 12), here is the two DIFFERENT scenarios for this Year (JUST AS IT WAS
FOR THE SECOND YEAR OF HUMANITY):

1) The New Moon of ABIB / AVIV has been on March 10, with Green Ears of Barley
ALREADY Sighted in or around Yerusalem, Israel, as the best Scriptural
reference, BEFORE, and ON the New Moon of THIS Month, at the end of Winter
season, about 10 Days BEFORE the Vernal Equinox, but The Passover will be on
March 23, just AFTER the Vernal Equinox, at the Beginning of Spring season! The
so-called Fall Feasts will be in September, with Shoutings (Trumpets) on
September 4, Atonements (Coverings) on September 13, and Tabernacles (Booths)
and Last Great Day from September 18 to September 25, that is mostly of Them at
the end of Summer season, but with the Fall Equinox being in the midst of
Tabernacles (Booths) and Last Great Day, at the Beginning of Fall season!

2) The New Moon of ABIB / AVIV will be on April 9, when there will be NO ABIB /
AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) to be SIGHTED, during the NEXT New Moon and Month,
but the Ears of Barley will be GOLD / BROWN, and MATURE to be harvested, about
20 Days AFTER the Vernal Equinox, and The Passover will be on April 22, MORE
THAN ONE MONTH AFTER the Vernal Equinox, so in the midst of Spring season, and
NOT at the Beginning! The so-called Fall Feasts will be in October, with
Shoutings (Trumpets) on October 3, Atonements (Coverings) on October 12, and
Tabernacles (Booths) and Last Great Day from October 17 to October 24, MORE THAN
ONE MONTH AFTER the Fall Equinox, that is in the midst of Fall season, and NOT
at the Beginning!

BTW, by comparison, we remember about three years ago some of the Jews,
Messianics, Christians, and Sacred Namers celebrated Passover (Pesach) and
Tabernacles / Booths (Sukkot) a month later similar to this Year that some of
you will be doing next month.

And we remember that many of them experienced the cold, snow, windy, and
freezing rain of winter during the Feast of Tabernacles, WRONGLY kept very late
in October (JUST AS THEY WILL DO THIS YEAR!), having to live in Booths (Sukkath)
for seven days (Leviticus 23:41-43), and even having several problems to find
leafed branches of trees at that LATE time (Leviticus 23:39-40)!


Our Conclusions:

Surely the Vernal Equinox is a reference to Set the Beginning of the Year, but
Very Clearly it is NOT the ONLY reference, being it ALSO related to the New
Moon, and to ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley), otherwise the Year should begin
ALWAYS only at the Vernal Equinox, that surely is NOT the case, because only
very rarely that occurs!

Then, we can state that the Beginning of the Year could occur from March 5 to
April 5, depending when the New Moon CLOSEST to (before, on, or after) the
Vernal Equinox occurs, and if ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) will be SIGHTED
at that time!

According to Historical Records, it is Very Clear that on the New Moon CLOSEST
to (before, on, or after) the Vernal Equinox, ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley)
is SIGHTED, just as it is occurred also this Year!

And The THREE Pilgrimage Feasts (Deuteronomy 16:16), that is, THE FEAST OF
PASSOVER AND UNLEAVENED (BREAD), THE FEAST OF PENTECOST (WEEKS), AND THE FEAST
OF TABERNACLES (BOOTHS) AND LAST GREAT DAY, Very Clearly have to be CLOSEST to
the BEGINNING (Equinox, or Solstice) of the THREE Agricultural Seasons, SPRING
(Passover and Unleavened Bread), SUMMER (Pentecost / Weeks), and FALL
(Tabernacles / Booths and Last Great Day)!

That will be the case, and occur ONLY IF ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley) is
SIGHTED, as during THIS New Moon and Month, and NOT IF ABIB / AVIV will NOT be
SIGHTED, as it will be during the NEXT New Moon and Month!

YAHWEH clearly says to OBSERVE the Month of ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley),
and to Keep HIS Passover during the Month of ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of Barley),
and NOT A MONTH LATER, when there will be NO ABIB / AVIV ANYMORE (Deuteronomy
16:1; Exodus Chapter 12)!

Please Notice that is NOT just a case and coincidence that YAHWEH Called ONLY
the First Month of the Year by a Name (ABIB / AVIV, meaning Green Ears of
Barley), just numbering all the other Months of the Year, as HE Called ONLY the
Seventh Day of the Week by a Name (SHABBATH, meaning Rest), just numbering all
the other Days of the Week!

Then, it is VERY IMPORTANT to YAHWEH that we Observe the Month of ABIB / AVIV
(Green Ears of Barley), as the Beginning (First) of the Months of the Year, and
that we Keep HIS Passover during the Month of ABIB / AVIV (Green Ears of
Barley), on HIS Set Feasts Season, and NOT LATER (Leviticus Chapter 23)!
Then, according to The Scriptures, we confirm that the New Year began on March
10th, 2005, at The TRUE New Moon (at The Conjunction, or The Dark, Covered Moon,
that is, the Day After the Last Visible Crescent of the Old Moon, See 1 Samuel
20:5, 18).

The Passover of YAHWEH, AND The Memorial of YAHSHUA (The Last Supper WAS The
Passover Meal, See all the related Verses in Mattithyah / Matthew, Mark, and
Luke, and Consider that the account by Yahchanan / John was written from the
point of view of the setting of the Feast of the Jews, a Day Later for their
doctrines and traditions of men!), on the 14th Day of the 1st Month, at even, is
March 23rd, 2005, at evening, to continue to Keep during the night.

The First Day of Unleavened (Bread) is March 24th, 2005, in the morning (dawn to
sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

The Seventh, Last Day of Unleavened (Bread) is March 30th, 2005, in the morning
(dawn to sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

WaveSheaf (at the time of the Harvest of Barley, See Leviticus 23:10) is April
30th, 2005, in the morning (dawn to sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

Pentecost (at the time of the Harvest of Wheat, See Exodus 34:22) is June 19th,
2005, in the morning (dawn to sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).

May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brethren in HIS Name,

Carlo and Davide Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: John Cordaro <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???

Greetings Carlo,

Let me begin by saying I will be celebrating Passover this month for
basically the same reasons you stated here. The 19 year cycle that
Tracy referred to is a man-made invention that comes close to Yahweh's
true method, but not quite close enough. Consider the following from an
article by Dr John Zucker which appeared in the Jewish Chronicle, April
11, 1997. ;

"The 19-year Metonic cycle is named after the Greek astronomer , Meton,
who devised it around 430 BCE. It was well known to the rabbis of the
Talmud. When, in 350 CE, the Roman authorities limited the authority of
the Nasi - the spiritual leader - in Eretz Yisrael, regarding the
proclamation of Rosh Chodesh, Hillei 11, the then Nasi, instituted the
present fixed calendar, based on the Metonic cycle. Although it was
remarkably accurate for its time, it is not exact. The 235 lunar months
exceed the 19 solar years by a little more than two hours. Spread over
1,000 years, this totals some 4.5 days. One thousand years ago, the
first day of Pesach would have fallen, on average, four or five days
earlier than now, in the correct solar time span as dictated by the
Torah." End

Leap years are not determined by scientific calculation, but by the
state of the barley (whether or not it is abib).

Carlo, you wrote;

> BTW, for First Crescent believers, please Read 1 Samuel 20:5, 18, and
> ask yourselves how could King David and Yahnathan say, TOMORROW IS THE
> NEW MOON, if it would be at the First Visible Crescent, other than
> only to know in advance when the New Moon was, by astronomical
> calculation of the Conjunction, and/or by sighting of the Last Visible
> Crescent of the Old Moon???

David and Yahnathan both knew when the last new moon occurred. They
both knew when the 15th day of the month was and when the 30th day of
the month was. It is obvious that this statement was made on day 30 of
the current month. Since no month has 31 days, "tomorrow" had to be day
number 1 of a new month (New Moon). They could not have made such a
statement with certainty on day 29 because it was possible it was the
month would have 30 days.

Carlo wrote;

> The First Day of Unleavened (Bread) is March 24th, 2005, in the
> morning (dawn to sunrise) until the evening (sunset to dark).
>

Just curious - When the first "day" of Unleavened ends and night
begins, are we permitted to eat leaven or have leaven in our houses as
long as we get it out before the next "day" begins? If not, why?

Shalom,
John Cordaro

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahwehcommunity" <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat Mar 19, 2005 10:45 pm
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???


Shalom John!

Thank you very much for sharing that interesting information!

I am very glad that we agree on which Month of the Year is Truly ABIB / AVIV
(Green Ears of Barley), and how to Set it, according to The Scriptures!

PRAISE YAHWEH!!!


About your explanation of 1 Samuel 20:5, 18, while it is True that their
statement was made on the 30th Day of the Month, because the Scriptural Month is
ALWAYS of 30 Days, I have to tell you that, to my knowledge, there is NO
Scripture (DO YOU KNOW ANY?) supporting to Set the New Moon on the Day After, if
you cannot Sight the New Moon for any reason (supposedly you cannot watch for
the First Visible Crescent, that, anyway, is NOT the NEW Moon, but one or two
Days OLD Moon!), but that was just a man-made way, and method, and tradition,
since it could be absolutely WRONG (NOT only because the First Visible Crescent
is NOT The New Moon, anyway, but also because the UNsighted New Moon actually
could be The TRUE New Moon!).

The Simple and Plain Truth, without going around to try any excuses to justify a
man-made way, and method, and tradition, is only that King David and Yahnathan
could make their statement with certainly because they knew in advance when the
New Moon was, by astronomical calculation of the Conjunction, and/or by sighting
of the Last Visible Crescent of the Old Moon!


About your question: When the first "day" of Unleavened ends and night begins,
are we permitted to eat leaven or have leaven in our houses as long as we get it
out before the next "day" begins? If not, why?

The answer is Plain and Simple: NO, we are NOT permitted to eat leaven (jeast)
or to have any leaven (jeast), because we have to eat UNleavened (UNjeasted)
(Bread), and to put any leaven (jeast) OUT of our houses (properties) FROM the
14th Day at even UNTIL the 21st Day at even (Exodus 12:18-20; Deuteronomy
16:3-8)!


May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brother in HIS Name,

Carlo Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: John Cordaro <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???

Greetings Carlo,

> About your explanation of 1 Samuel 20:5, 18, while it is True that
> their statement was made on the 30th Day of the Month, because the
> Scriptural Month is ALWAYS of 30 Days,

How do you harmonize a lunar year of approx. 354 days with 12 months of
30 days (360 days)?

Gen 1:14-18 clearly places the emphasis upon the visible "light" of the
sun and moon. The moon's "light" is for moedim and for signs.

> About your question: When the first "day" of Unleavened ends and night
> begins, are we permitted to eat leaven or have leaven in our houses as
> long as we get it out before the next "day" begins? If not, why?
>
> The answer is Plain and Simple: NO, we are NOT permitted to eat leaven
> (jeast) or to have any leaven (jeast), because we have to eat
> UNleavened (UNjeasted) (Bread), and to put any leaven (jeast) OUT of
> our houses (properties) FROM the 14th Day at even UNTIL the 21st Day
> at even (Exodus 12:18-20; Deuteronomy 16:3-8)!
>

So, you are placing a major emphasis on the word "until" which to you
would cause the nights to be included. Correct? How would you then
explain Lev 15:19 in which a menstruating woman was put apart "seven
days"? It does not say from the first day "until" the seventh day. If
the woman's flow began at 8:00 pm (night), according to your "day"
theory, this woman could still be touched and even had relations with
prior to the next "day" beginning. The, after that first "day" ended,
she could again be touched that night until the next "day" and so on.


Shalom,
John

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahwehcommunity" <[e-mail]>
Date: Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:27 pm
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???


Shalom John!

About your question:
How do you harmonize a lunar year of approx. 354 days with 12 months of 30 days
(360 days)?

MY ANSWER IS:
There are 30 Days between Monthly Conjunctions. Sometime during the 30th Day or
the 30th Night, the Next Conjunction occurs. If it occurs during the 30th Day,
that Day continues as the 30th Day of the Month. Once a Day starts it cannot be
reset, but continues to nightfall as the 30th Day of the Month!

Otherwise, How do you harmonize Genesis
7:11, 24, and Genesis 8:3, 4, where Very Clearly 150 Days are 5 Months of 30
Days, from the 17th Day of the 2nd Month to the 17th Day of the 7th Month?


Then you have claimed:
Gen 1:14-18 clearly places the emphasis upon the visible "light" of the sun and
moon. The moon's "light" is for moedim and for signs.

MY ANSWER IS:
Actually NOT! In fact, who did look for it at that time, when no human being was
on the Earth yet? And also the Moon is Dark a couple of Days each Month, at the
time of the Conjunction!

Really the emphasis is on the Sun, and the Stars, and also the Moon, as Signs
for the Seasons, and for the Days, and for the Years, and NOT necessarily on
their visibile light!


About the Seven Days of Unleavened (Bread), you have commented my answer:
So, you are placing a major emphasis on the word "until" which to you would
cause the nights to be included. Correct?

MY ANSWER IS:
Actually NO! I have simply said that we have to eat Unleavened (Unjeasted) and
we have to put out any leaven (jeast) from our properties, FROM the 14th Day at
even UNTIL the 21st Day at even, and very clearly during that time period there
are Seven Days (and, of course, also Seven Nights, to make it possible)!


About your question:
How would you then explain Lev 15:19 in which a menstruating woman was put apart
"seven days"? It does not say from the first day "until" the seventh day.

MY ANSWER IS:
It is just the SAME thing, since Seven Days have to pass (and, of course, also
Seven Nights, to make it possible)!


You have claimed:
If the woman's flow began at 8:00 pm (night), according to your "day" theory,
this woman could still be touched and even had relations with prior to the next
"day" beginning. Then, after that first "day" ended, she could again be touched
that night until the next "day" and so on.

MY ANSWER IS:
"your day theory"?!? Really you do NOT want to listen YAHWEH, and NOT me, Who
Very Clearly Called The Light DAY, and the Darkness NIGHT, and Separated Them
(Genesis 1:3-5, 14-18), and YAHSHUA, and NOT me, Who Very Clearly Said that
there are 12 Hours of Light in the Day, Separated from the Darkness, that is the
Night (Yahchanan / John 9:4-5; 11:9-10; Mattithyah / Matthew 12:39-40; 20:1-16)!

If the woman's flow began during the Night, she was Unclean from that time, and
she will remain Unclean for Seven Days (and, of course, also during the Nights,
to make it possible!), and there was no reason why she would become Clean during
the Night!

That is common sense!

While you are only trying to dispute The Scriptural Fact that the Day is The
Light time, trying to give it a strange look!

With your same pattern, I could ask you: according to your 24 hours day,
including night and day joined together, do you work 24 hours a Day for Six
Days, because of the Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11; Leviticus 23:3; and
Deuteronomy 5:12-15??? And you could answer that is common sense that you need
time to eat, and to sleep!

Do you see what I mean? Very Clearly The Day is The Light time, and the Night is
the Darkness time, and they are two entities Separated, according to The
Scriptures (See above what YAHWEH, and YAHSHUA Very Clearly Said on the
matter!), but the word Day can be also used in a widely way, to mean time
periods, and not just to specify its length (from morning to evening) each and
every time!


May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brother in HIS Name,

Carlo Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: [e-mail]
Date: Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:27 am
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR...

Someone wrote,

Otherwise, How do you harmonize Genesis
7:11, 24, and Genesis 8:3, 4, where Very Clearly 150 Days are 5 Months of 30 Days, from the 17th Day of the 2nd Month to the 17th Day of the 7th Month?


RESPONSE; HI Carlo, Gen does not teach a 30 day month calendar. If you count from the 17th of the 2nd month to the 17th of the seventh month there are 151 days, not 150 as you suggested. The waters were strong/prevailed on the earth for 150 days, but the ark rested 2 days before the 150 days, therefore the waters were strong for two more days and YHWH remembered Noah.

Brother Arnold

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahwehcommunity" <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:01 am
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR...


Shalom Arnold!

I really wonder:

How would you count 151 Days FROM the 17th Day of the 2nd Month TO the 17th Day
of the 7th Month?

Maybe did you count 5 Months of 30 Days each, PLUS one Day, including BOTH the
17th Day of the 2nd Month, AND the 17th Day of the 7th Month?

And where would The Scriptures say that the Ark rested 2 more Days, before the
150 Days?


Actually The Scriptures Very Clearly speak ONLY about 150 Days, when the waters
were strong / prevailed on the Earth (GENESIS 7:24; 8:3)!

And those 150 Days Very Clearly BEGAN on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS
7:11), and ENDED on the 17th Day of the 7th Month, when the Ark rested on the
mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4)!

Very Clearly those 150 Days were 5 Months of 30 Days Each, Proving that Each
Scriptural Month is 30 Days long!


AFTER those 150 Days, the waters decreased continually until the beginning of
the 10th Month, so that the Ark rested there for almost another 2 and a half
Months, until the tops of the mountain were seen (GENESIS 8:5)!

And another 3 Months passed, until the beginning of the 1st Month of the Next
Year, when the waters were dried up from all the Earth (GENESIS 8:13)!

And almost another 2 Months passed, until the 27th Day of the 2nd Month, when
the Earth were dried (GENESIS 8:14)!

May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brother in HIS Name,

Carlo Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: John Cordaro <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:25 am
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???

Greetings Carlo,

> Otherwise, How do you harmonize Genesis
> 7:11, 24, and Genesis 8:3, 4, where Very Clearly 150 Days are 5 Months
> of 30 Days, from the 17th Day of the 2nd Month to the 17th Day of the
> 7th Month?
>

Arnold answered that. I'll wait for your reply.

> Then you have claimed:
> Gen 1:14-18 clearly places the emphasis upon the visible "light" of
> the sun and moon. The moon's "light" is for moedim and for signs.
>
> MY ANSWER IS:
> Actually NOT! In fact, who did look for it at that time, when no human
> being was on the Earth yet? And also the Moon is Dark a couple of Days
> each Month, at the time of the Conjunction!

He created it to be looked upon by man who would be created three days
later. Your answer suggests that the light of the sun was not for man's
benefit because man was not yet created! Yes, the moon is dark for
several days a month. That is why it cannot possibly be a "sign" or a
"light" giving "light" in the firmament of heaven for moedim.

> About your question:
> How would you then explain Lev 15:19 in which a menstruating woman was
> put apart "seven days"? It does not say from the first day "until" the
> seventh day.
>
> MY ANSWER IS:
> It is just the SAME thing, since Seven Days have to pass (and, of
> course, also Seven Nights, to make it possible)!

That is your assumption. If you insist on applying "day" so strictly to
only the daylight portion, then the woman is unclean only during the
daylight portion and NOT at night.

> With your same pattern, I could ask you: according to your 24 hours
> day, including night and day joined together, do you work 24 hours a
> Day for Six Days, because of the Commandment in Exodus 20:8-11;
> Leviticus 23:3; and Deuteronomy 5:12-15??? And you could answer that
> is common sense that you need time to eat, and to sleep!

I could if I so choose. Yahweh has given me six 24 hour periods in
which I could do any amount of work I want. He has only given me ONE 24
hour period in which I cannot do ANY work at all.

How do you explain John 21:3-6? The disciples were fishing all NIGHT.
Was that forbidden? IF that night was Friday night, would they have
broken the Sabbath even IF they stopped working shortly before morning?

Shalom,
John

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahwehcommunity" <[e-mail]>
Date: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:25 am
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???


Shalom John!

I assume that your answer about Genesis 7:11, 24; 8:3, 4 would be the same wrong
one that he gave, because you said, "Arnold answered that".

I have already replied him, so now I will wait for your and/or his response
about that.


Then you said about the Sun, the Stars, and the Moon:
He created it to be looked upon by man who would be created three days later.
Your answer suggests that the light of the sun was not for man's benefit because
man was not yet created! Yes, the moon is dark for several days a month. That is
why it cannot possibly be a "sign" or a "light" giving "light" in the firmament
of heaven for moedim.

MY ANSWER:
Again, WHO did watch for the FIRST New Moon (supposedly and wrongly the First
Visible Crescent of the Moon)

NO human being!

That is The Scriptural Pattern, and Proof that the New Moon cannot, and has NOT
to be watched by man, being the special monthly time of the Conjunction, when
the Moon is NEW, Renewed, Covered, Dark in the Sky!

Otherwise, YAHWEH would have Created man FIRST, and THEN the Moon to be watched
by man for the New Moon!

Just as you did for my Scriptural Belief that the Day is The Light (see your
previous post, and your answer below), now you are trying also to put some
strange look to what I said for the New Moon that is The Conjunction, by
claiming that my answer would suggest that the Light of the Sun was not for the
benefit of man, because man was not Created yet.

No, John, I have simply said that YAHWEH Set the Sun, the Stars, and also the
Moon, as SIGNS for the Seasons, and the Days, and the Years, and NOT necessarily
their Visible Lights!

SIGNS are the Sun, the Stars, and the Moon, and not necessarily their Visible
Lights! For example, Night comes when it is Dark, and there is NOT the Sun in
the Visible Sky, and not necessarily the Visible Lights of the Stars, and the
Moon, in a cloudy Sky!

You are wrongly mixing the two!


Then you have commented about my answer about the woman having her monthly
menstrual cycle:
That is your assumption. If you insist on applying "day" so strictly to only the
daylight portion, then the woman is unclean only during the daylight portion and
NOT at night.

MY ANSWER:
No, that is YOUR assumption!

Again you are trying to put a strange look on my Scriptural Belief of The Day
that is The Light Time!

YAHWEH, and YAHSHUA, and NOT me, applied the Day so strictly to only the Light
portion, Very Clearly Calling The Light DAY, and Separating it from the Darkness
portion, Calling it the Night, and Saying that there are 12 Hours of Light in
the Day, after which the Night (Darkness) comes, and NOT 24 Hours of a mixed
Night (Darkness) and Day (Light)!

Since the woman during her monthly menstrual cycle is Unclean for Seven Days,
there is no reason, until the Seven Days are passed, why she should become Clean
during the Night, to become Unclean again during the Day!

If that was the case, YAHWEH would say that she was Unclean until the evening,
and then she would be Clean, as HE said for other kinds of Uncleaness!


You have claimed about to work in your 24 hours days:
I could if I so choose. Yahweh has given me six 24 hour periods in which I could
do any amount of work I want. He has only given me ONE 24 hour period in which I
cannot do ANY work at all.

MY ANSWER:
You could?!? Working without sleeping for Six Days, 24 hours each?!? Please,
John, be serious, YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DO IT, UNLESS TO BECOME MAD, OR DEAD!

And you cannot pick up whatever you want!

The Scriptural Pattern is Six Days are for our own work, and the Seventh Day is
The Sabbath of Rest, to Set Apart to YAHWEH!

You cannot use only parts of the Six Days for your own work, and then to insist
on 24 Hours for the rest on The Sabbath!

Would it be not really strange and unfair that YAHWEH would Command to do work
whatever and whenever you want during the first Six Days, but to pretend that
you Rest for 24 Hours, Night and Day, as The Sabbath?!?

Not so, since YAHWEH is a Fair Creator, and a Loving Father!

And HE Commanded to work Six Days (during the Light Time), and to Rest The
Seventh Day (during the Light Time), and Keep It Set Apart to HIM as The
Sabbath!


You asked:
How do you explain John 21:3-6? The disciples were fishing all NIGHT. Was that
forbidden? IF that night was Friday night, would they have broken the Sabbath
even IF they stopped working shortly before morning?

MY ANSWER:
There is NO Commandment to do, nor to forbid work during the Nights (Darkness
Time), except for specified Nights of Passover, and Atonements (Coverings)!

The Commandment is to work during the Day (Light Time), as The Scriptural
Pattern pointing back to YAHWEH as The Creator (Exodus 20:8-11)!

Then, the Disciples of YAHSHUA could be fishing All the Night, that was / is the
best way to get fish, and to be ready to prepare it in the morning, to cook, and
eat it, and/or to sell it!

But surely that was NOT Friday Night, simply because they would need to work in
the morning to prepare, cook, and eat the fish, just as they did (See Verses
9-15)!

But they would have NOT broken The Sabbath to be fishing Friday Night, if they
could stop working before Dawn, since The Sabbath was / is from early in the
Morning (Dawn to Sunrise) of The Seventh Day (Saturday)!

May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brother in HIS Name,

Carlo Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Monns Group:

From: John Cordaro <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:14 am
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???

Greetings Carlo,

> I assume that your answer about Genesis 7:11, 24; 8:3, 4 would be the
> same wrong one that he gave, because you said, "Arnold answered that".
>
> I have already replied him, so now I will wait for your and/or his
> response about that.

Arnold is correct in that the time in question comprises 151 days, but
that is not the real issue. You are assuming 150 days equals five
months from conjunction to conjunction. You are reading conjunctions
into the text. It can just as easily refer to months from visible
crescent to visible crescent. I do not deny the possibility that at
that period of time in earth's history months consisted of 30 days.
Now, however, the lunar cycle is no longer a perfect 360 days, but 354
days or so. Something has happened to distort that cycle. I assume it
was the flood that knocked the earth onto a slight tilt.

>
>
> Then you said about the Sun, the Stars, and the Moon:
> He created it to be looked upon by man who would be created three days
> later. Your answer suggests that the light of the sun was not for
> man's benefit because man was not yet created! Yes, the moon is dark
> for several days a month. That is why it cannot possibly be a "sign"
> or a "light" giving "light" in the firmament of heaven for moedim.
>
> MY ANSWER:
> Again, WHO did watch for the FIRST New Moon (supposedly and wrongly
> the First Visible Crescent of the Moon)
>
> NO human being!

We have no knowledge of what phase the moon appeared when it was first
created. It could have been full, 1/2, whatever. Since Adam was
created several days later, he certainly saw the next visible crescent,
1/2 moon, full moon, etc. How can you say "no human being" except with
the erroneous thought that the new moon is a dark moon?
He certainly did not create the moon at conjunction and then say, "Let
there be lights in the firmament of the heaven . . ." In whatever
night that first moon appeared, it appeared as a light, not dark.

> SIGNS are the Sun, the Stars, and the Moon, and not necessarily their
> Visible Lights! For example, Night comes when it is Dark, and there is
> NOT the Sun in the Visible Sky, and not necessarily the Visible Lights
> of the Stars, and the Moon, in a cloudy Sky!

Obviously. The sun would be a visible sign during the day and the moon
a visible sign during the night. How simple. Just as the sun's "light"
rules the day, the moon's "light" rules the night.

> Then you have commented about my answer about the woman having her
> monthly menstrual cycle:
> That is your assumption. If you insist on applying "day" so strictly
> to only the daylight portion, then the woman is unclean only during
> the daylight portion and NOT at night.
>
> MY ANSWER:
> No, that is YOUR assumption!
>
> Again you are trying to put a strange look on my Scriptural Belief of
> The Day that is The Light Time!

Your doctrine has a strange look all by itself. And I certainly am not
coming against the daylight being day. What I totally reject is your
insistence that the phrase "Sabbath Day" can only apply to daylight
when, for example, Yahshua himself clearly used the term "day" in
reference to the night when speaking his prophecy of the thingy crowing.

> You asked:
> How do you explain John 21:3-6? The disciples were fishing all NIGHT.
> Was that forbidden? IF that night was Friday night, would they have
> broken the Sabbath even IF they stopped working shortly before > morning?
>
> MY ANSWER:
> There is NO Commandment to do, nor to forbid work during the Nights
> (Darkness Time), except for specified Nights of Passover, and
> Atonements (Coverings)!
>
> The Commandment is to work during the Day (Light Time), as The
> Scriptural Pattern pointing back to YAHWEH as The Creator (Exodus
> 20:8-11)!
>
> Then, the Disciples of YAHSHUA could be fishing All the Night, that
> was / is the best way to get fish, and to be ready to prepare it in
> the morning, to cook, and eat it, and/or to sell it!
>
> But surely that was NOT Friday Night, simply because they would need
> to work in the morning to prepare, cook, and eat the fish, just as
> they did (See Verses 9-15)!

I know it was not Friday night. This was a hypothetical situation which
is why I used the word "IF".

Shalom,
John

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahwehcommunity" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:16 pm
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???


Shalom John!

YOU WROTE:
Arnold is correct in that the time in question comprises 151 days, but that is
not the real issue.

I REPLY:
No, Arnold and you are WRONG, since The Scriptures clearly say 150 Days, and NOT
151 Days (GENESIS 7:24, 8:3), and it very clear that time period started on the
17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS 7:11), and ENDED on the 17th Day of the 7th
Month (GENESIS 8:4)!

The waters were strong on the Earth for 150 Days, and NOT 151 Days!

Please, notice that on the 17th Day of the 7th Month the Ark rested on the
Mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4), so the waters were NO MORE strong on the
Earth, but they ENDED to be so on that Day!

Then, 150 Days when the waters were strong on the Earth were from 17th Day of
the 2nd Month to the 16th Day of the 7th Month, and ended on the 17th Day of the
7th Month, when the Ark rested on the mountains of Ararat!

From the 2nd Month to the 7th Month there are 5 Months, so that very clearly 150
Days are 5 Months of 30 Days Each!


YOU WROTE:
You are assuming 150 days equals five months from conjunction to conjunction.
You are reading conjunctions into the text. It can just as easily refer to
months from visible crescent to visible crescent.

I REPLY:
No, I simply said that the Scriptural Month is 30 Day long, so 150 Days are 5
Months of 30 Days Each!

I am not reading Conjunctions in the text, since Conjunction is the New Moon
anyway, from the Beginning!

But you are contradicting yourself by saying, "It can just as easily refer to
months from visible crescent to visible crescent", since you stated that the
Lunar Year is 354 Days, and NOT 360 Days, so claiming alternate Months of 29
Days and of 30 Days, and NOT Each and Every Month of 30 Days!


YOU WROTE:
I do not deny the possibility that at that period of time in earth's history
months consisted of 30 days. Now, however, the lunar cycle is no longer a
perfect 360 days, but 354 days or so. Something has happened to distort that
cycle. I assume it was the flood that knocked the earth onto a slight tilt.

I REPLY:
Now you are going around, because you realize to be wrong on the 151 Days,
instead of 150 Days being 5 Months of 30 Days Each, and, even if you did not
admit to be WRONG on that, you said to do not deny the possibility that at that
period of time was so, but it would be not now!

Again, you are WRONG!

Please, read Revelation Chapter 11, and you will see that 42 Months (Verse 2)
are 1260 Days (Verse 3), that is, 42 Months of 30 Days Each!

And very clearly the Prophecy in Revelation Chapter 11 is FUTURE, so it is a
100% sure that the length of the Months did NOT change, as you WRONGLY assumed!

It is your WRONG doctrine that knocked you onto a slight tilt... )


YOU WROTE:
We have no knowledge of what phase the moon appeared when it was first created.
It could have been full, 1/2, whatever.
I REPLY:
On the contrary, we know that the Moon was Dark, before YAHWEH Made Light on the
Earth (Genesis 1:2).

And it is obvious and logical that the First Day of the First Month began from
the Conjunction, and NOT in the middle of the Month, or on any other phase of
the Moon!

And I would like to remember you that the Moon is NOT a Light, is NOT a Star, as
the Sun is!

The Moon is a natural satellite that has no Light by itself.

The Moon only reflects the Light from the Sun, so without the Light from the
Sun, the Moon was / is Dark!


YOU WROTE:
Since Adam was created several days later, he certainly saw the next visible
crescent, 1/2 moon, full moon, etc. How can you say "no human being" except with
the erroneous thought that the new moon is a dark moon?

I REPLY:
Surely Adam could see the NEXT phases of the Moon (that, anyway, was NOT The New
Moon!), but surely he could NOT see the New Moon, when the Moon was Made, also
because Adam was NOT created yet!

I repeat, no human being saw the FIRST New Moon, also because no human being
existed at that time, and that is a Further Scriptural Proof that the New Moon
is at the Conjunction, when the Moon is Renewed, Covered, and Dark, and no human
being can see it!

Actually the erroneous thought, and the ancient pagan Babylonian custom of Moon
worshippers (that is continuing to be practiced!), is to believe that man should
watch for the First Crescent (typical symbol of Arab nations, where Babylon was
/ is!), when the Moon is already Old of one or two Days!


YOU WROTE:
He certainly did not create the moon at conjunction and then say, "Let there be
lights in the firmament of the heaven . . ." In whatever night that first moon
appeared, it appeared as a light, not dark.

I REPLY:
I repeat, the Moon is NOT a Light, but a natural satellite that reflects the
Light from the Sun!

The Sun, and the Stars are Lights who were made, and set in the Sky!

And I repeat, surely the First Day of the First Month was the New Moon, and the
Moon was Dark, Covered (Genesis 1:2), at the Conjunction with the Sun, that was
its logical and obvious Beginning, then ahead reflecting the Light from the Sun,
during the Month for 30 Days, until the next Conjunction with the Sun!


YOU WROTE:
Obviously. The sun would be a visible sign during the day and the moon a visible
sign during the night. How simple. Just as the sun's "light" rules the day, the
moon's "light" rules the night.

I REPLY:
NOT SO OBVIOUS, John, since the Moon is NOT a visible sign for a couple of
Nights each and every Month, not to say when the Sky is cloudy!

AND NOT HOW SIMPLE, John, since the Moon does NOT rule all the Nights, because,
for a couple of Nights each and every Month, the Moon is Dark, Covered, not to
say when the Sky is cloudy!

Actually the Stars rule the Night, just as the Sun rules the Day.

At the most, we could say that the Moon, often, co-rules the Night together with
the Stars!


YOU WROTE:
Your doctrine has a strange look all by itself. And I certainly am not coming
against the daylight being day. What I totally reject is your insistence that
the phrase "Sabbath Day" can only apply to daylight when, for example, Yahshua
himself clearly used the term "day" in
reference to the night when speaking his prophecy of the thingy crowing.

I REPLY:
Actually, YOUR doctrine has a strange look all by itself, working 24 full hours,
Night and Day, for Six Days, but choosing to do it whatever and whenever you
want, but, however, being obligated to keep set apart, and rest for 24 full
hours on the Sabbath Day and Night (maybe making holy sleepings, and dreams...)!

Actually YOUR is the insistence that the phrase "Sabbath Day" can only apply to
24 hours, when YAHSHUA very clearly said that there are 12 Hours in the Day
(Yahchanan / John 11:9)!

And about HIS prophecy of the thingy crowing, YAHSHUA simply meant TODAY, NOW, and
HE was absolutely NOT saying that Night is part of the Day, contradicting
HIMSELF!

Actually YOU are the one who is inferring that, and putting such WRONG thought
on HIS Mouth!


YOU WROTE:
I know it was not Friday night. This was a hypothetical situation which is why I
used the word "IF".
Shalom,
John

I REPLY:
Please, be sincere, John!

Actually you tried to make such hypothetical situation to see what I would say,
only to find something to further dispute my Scriptural Belief that work is
Commanded only during the Day (Light Time)!

But your trying failed, since I did reply that work is NOT Commanded, but NOR
Forbitten during the Night (Darkness Time), except for specified Nights of
Passover and Atonements (Coverings)!

I see yours to be not the right attitude of a sincere Truth Seeker, to Prove All
Things, and Hold Fast That Which is Righteous (1 Thessalonians 5:21), since you
are still grasping to doctrines and traditions of men...

May YAHWEH Bless your Understanding!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brother in HIS Name,

Carlo Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: "yahshuadisciples" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:57 pm
Subject: Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR" YET: ARE YOU SURE???


Shalom John!

We would like to tell you that even if we disagree with you on some FEW
Scriptural Teachings (mostly related to calendar matters, just as shown on the
posts in this Group, The True Sabbaths And New Moons), we agree with you on THE
VAST MAJORITY of The Scriptural Truths, and we Truly appreciate, and share MANY
of your Scriptural Studies, published on your Web Site, The Good News of Yahweh,
to have copied them, and linked it to our Web Site!

Have a meaningful Passover, and Feast of Unleavened (Bread)!

YAHWEH Bless you!

True Love in YAHSHUA MESSIYAH!

Your Brethren in HIS Name,

Carlo and Davide Tognoni,

The Community of YAHWEH
For The Disciples of YAHSHUA

[Davide]

Message re-posted from The True Sabbaths And New Moons Group:

From: [e-mail]
Date: Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:58 pm
Subject: Re: [TheTrueSabbathsAndNewMoons] Re: THIRTEENTH CHODESH - NOT "HAPPY NEW YEAR...


Carlo wrote,

Shalom John!

YOU WROTE:
Arnold is correct in that the time in question comprises 151 days, but that is not the real issue.

I REPLY:
No, Arnold and you are WRONG, since The Scriptures clearly say 150 Days, and NOT 151 Days (GENESIS 7:24, 8:3), and it very clear that time period started on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (GENESIS 7:11), and ENDED on the 17th Day of the 7th Month (GENESIS 8:4)!


RESPONSE; (THAT IS 151 DAYS), DON’T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT , COUNT IT YOURSELF AND YOU should see that it is 151 days from the 17th of the 2nd month to the 17th of the 7th month, using 30 day months, NOT 15O days as you suggest.

Do you really think the moon has speeded up a half a day each month and now only takes 29 and a half days to orbit the earth and it used to take 30 days to make the same trip??

Do you believe the ordinance of the moon has changed?

If so He said Israel would cease to be a nation. In order to believe what you are preaching one would have to not only go against the WORD, gut against nature. END


Carlo continues,

The waters were strong on the Earth for 150 Days, and NOT 151 Days!


RESPONSE; I AGREE BUT THE ARK RESTED IN THE 7TH MONTH ON THE 17TH DAY, WHICH IS “NOT” 150 DAYS. YOU ARE READING SOMETHING INTO THE SCRIPTURES WHEN YOU SAY different. that is a private interoperation if there has ever been one. END.


Carlo continues,

Please, notice that on the 17th Day of the 7th Month the Ark rested on the Mountains of Ararat (GENESIS 8:4), so the waters were NO MORE strong on the Earth, but they ENDED to be so on that Day!


RESPONSE; just because the ark rested, or hung on the mountain on the 17th does not mean that the waters were not strong another day or 2 before they began to dry up. THE ARK RESTED BEFORE THE TOPS OF THE MOUNTAINS were seen, and 15 cubits above the highest mountain would not be high enough for the ark to pass because at least 25 feet of such a ship would be under water and would rest upon the mountain. END.


Carlo continues,

Please, read Revelation Chapter 11, and you will see that 42 Months (Verse 2) are 1260 Days (Verse 3), that is, 42 Months of 30 Days Each!


RESPONSE ; YOU ARE ADDING TO THE WORD again Carlo. The WORD does not teach 3o day months here neither. Please reread it. Just because 30 will go into 1260 forty two timed does not make 3o day months. The moon has not gotten faster and has not changed it ordinance. END


Carlo continues,

And I would like to remember you that the Moon is NOT a Light, is NOT a Star, as the Sun is!


RESPONSE; although we do not call the moon a star, THE Jews of our Savior’s day saw it as a star according to many places in Philo the Jew such as when he said “that stay,” referring to the moon etc, after all it is the same word, when He said “let there be luminaries/light” the grater light/luminary and the lesser light/luminary. You might wan’t to check me out on this, but best I remember, BOTH lights are LUMINARIES/STARS. End.


Carlo continues,

The Moon is a natural satellite that has no Light by itself.


RESPONSE; WRONG again Carlo, the scripture says that things are brought forth by the light of the moon, referring to the moon as having light. END.


Carlo continues,

I repeat, no human being saw the FIRST New Moon, also because no human being existed at that time, and that is a Further Scriptural Proof that the New Moon is at the Conjunction, when the Moon is Renewed, Covered, and Dark, and no human being can see it!


RESPONSE; YOU ARE GETTING CLOSE Carlo, the sun and moon were part of the heavens when YHWH created them IN THE BEGINNING and they were dark when He moved upon the water which was also created before He said let there be light/luminaries and lit the dark bodies. Before He worked on them for 6 days and when He rested, the seventh day, the moon was in an 8th day Phase. END.

Brother Arnold